Dime-Store Psychology

[danreidbarmi]

It's been curious observing how some who participate in these threads have the nerve to judge one another. Now, an even more bizarre syndrome has emerged: reading between the lines, practicing dime-store psychology based on pre-conceived notions. The following quote is from frequent poster, NotLostJustWandering:

"Sorry, Dan, but it is utterly naive of you to imagine that at this point you can start a discussion here about philandering and not expect people to read it in the light of your own infidelity. There is a strange disconnect going on, even as you go through your remorse and depression."

Betwixt the posts about cum swallowing and butt plugs there are some very informative, intelligent, and helpful discussions on this site. I'll bet I'm not the only confused soul who has benefited from these threads, as they offer an opportunity to learn important stuff about ourselves, while finding kinship and empathy with our fellow seekers.

Is it too much to ask that we not only refrain from judgment, but also save the amateur psychobabble? I honestly don't think an online forum is the place for it. Am I wrong here?

[slipnslide]

Yes it's too much to ask and yes you're dead wrong. You only chastise people on their opinions and accuse them of "judging" when it runs contrary to your opinion.

I agree with NotLostJustWandering. You're exhibiting confirmational bias - you only want to hear opinions of which you agree.

You should probably start a thread called "Please only post here if you agree with everything I say otherwise I'll have to accuse you of judging". Then we can all avoid it and you'll be a little more honest with what you're trying to do - seek validation.

[csrakate]

Sorry Dan, but I don't see his comments as "psychobabble"....just a statement of fact. You have indeed posted a bit about infidelity and it is very difficult to read your statements and not be clouded by the most recent events within your life. Sorry..but that's just how I see it as well. Some could say that it is your attempt to deflect responsibility....not saying that is how it is....but just saying.

[fredtyg]

Some could say that it is your attempt to deflect responsibility....not saying that is how it is....but just saying.

Maybe Dan's just trying to move on? Some of you just won't let it drop and, no matter what he says, keep going back at him for something he's already admitted to.

Me thinks some of you might suffer from "Kick A Guy When He's Down Syndrome".

[csrakate]

No Fred...I do not like to kick a guy while he is down...I have kept my thoughts to myself through this entire thing and have never said a cross word to Dan...BUT I do believe he is crossing the line. If Dan wishes to "move on" as you suggest, maybe he should try by not stirring things up so much by being so defensive. That's one way to move on.

[Realist]

Dan,

Maybe you're gonna have to do what I finally learned to do; I read what I feel is competent advice, suggestions and information, then weed out the rest. I've even put some folks on ignore, because I don't wanna hear what they've got to say anymore.

When I first came here, I clashed with a couple of folks, over something I wrote...or they wrote. Then, it dawned on me that I didn't know them and they didn't know me, so why should I get mad at them for saying how they felt?

Sometimes, I could see their sides of the discussion made more sense and, from time to time, have adjusted my stand. Other times I didn't agree with them at all. When that happens, I just ignore further comments and go on my way.

Everyone's got an opinion and are free to tell it as the way they see it.

There's many folks here that I respect, or at least can easily tolerate. Some are very bright and it's interesting to discuss different subjects with them. A few are certainly not anyone I'd wanna be stuck on a desert island with, too! I've been around for a few turns of this ol' globe, but have learned many things and met some really great folks, since coming here.......so I'm not leaving. I like who I like and pass on the rest.

The way I see it, you're asking the questions, so you have to be prepared for the answers..........whether, or not, you like 'em. I think you've gotten some pretty good advice, along with some that's overboard, too. But, I think you'd get just as widely varied responses, if you asked your own family the things you've asked, here.

[NotLostJustWandering]

What is this thread about and why are people mentioning infidelity?


View all threads started by danreidbarmi. (http://main.bisexual.com/forum/search.php?do=finduser&u=118193&starteronly=1) It starts with his third one "I did it. I came out to my wife..." All the subsequent threads are spin-offs.

[danreidbarmi]

Sorry Dan, but I don't see his comments as "psychobabble"....just a statement of fact.

How is it possibly a "statement of fact" to say you "sense a disconnect?" That's absurd! How is it being defensive when I post a proposition and then object to having that entire proposition questioned in light of what I've revealed in past discussions?

First of all, no one knows the "facts" of my life but me (and, even that's questionable, because I can only see things through my own lens). Now you claim that someone who has read what I have written through his lens, then makes a psychological determination about me is making a "statement of fact"? How exactly does that logic work? Please explain.

I'm not looking for total agreement or lobbying for any particular POV here. Where do any of you see that? There is a difference between judgment and comment. I have lived with lots of comments with which I've disagreed. That's what discussions are all about. However, when I perceive judgment, it completely discredits that person's POV. If I point out a person's judgmental POV, does that mean I'm being defensive? Or, am I really making, in your words, a "statement of fact?"

Time and time again, I have copped to my culpability, my responsibility, my having put myself in a position to succumb to my demons, my lies, my infidelity, and my subsequent remorse over the pain I've caused. Yet, because I observe that someone is being judgmental -- when that person is clearly being judgmental -- that means I'm being defensive? Once again, I'm waiting for an explanation, because as far as I'm concerned, that's called making a "statement of fact."

I'm not accusing NotLost of being judgmental. Quite the contrary. I'm sure he thinks he's being compassionate; but, he comes off as "holier-than-thou," "superior," as he issues "advise" from his "grand and wise" perspective. Still, when he has made a valid point, I swallowed my ego, set my pride aside, and admitted that it was worth considering -- regardless of his overt pompousness. For some reason, some of you are unwilling to give me an iota of credit. You find something to object to, pounce on it, then gang up on a lost man who is trying desperately to make sense of the mess he's made. (Now, go ahead and accuse me of playing the victim, because, once again, I've admitted my vulnerability. Do it! Make yourselves feel better.)

In starting this thread, I asked for a simple agreement -- that we put a moratorium on judging each other, and that we stop making pedantic, amateur psychological diagnoses about people we don't even know. There is enormous benefit to be gained from these discussions. With your help, a person like me can be guided toward healing. I've connected with some caring people here, people who have offered to listen without judgment, without lecturing me, without belittling, without sniping, and ganging up.

I guess some people just don't get it. That's cool. But, come on. You're playing with people's lives here. These are crux issues, sometimes life and death issues. If you're gonna read between the lines, please try to see thru your most generous lens, not the one that has a preconceived image etched into it. You're better than that, and you know it.

Thanks,
Dan

[Cherokee_Mountaincat]

Dan, there's an old saying "Dont ask the questions if you dont want the answers"
You put the thread out there for all to see, then get ticked when not everybody sides with You. If you wanted to not get answers that were not going to be entirely favorable, then you should not have posted it in the first place. Each person here is going to have a POV on what you posted, and just as many are going to have their own interpretation of it. Its gunna happen, deal with it. Dont get uptight, or defensive, just let it go. You posted you own point of view and lay everything out there for all to see. It's done, its over with, and should be a mute deal.
Move on and try to get things straightened out so you can go on and have a productive life.
Good luck with that. :}
Cat

[danreidbarmi]

Dan, there's an old saying "Dont ask the questions if you dont want the answers"
You put the thread out there for all to see, then get ticked when not everybody sides with you.

Please, for God's sake, I'm not at all interested in people "siding" with me. Above all else, I am looking for answers, whether I like them or not. However, to base a comment today on something I posted a month ago is simply unfair and uncalled for.

A month ago, I thought the issue was revealing my sexuality. What I quickly learned is that coming out is actually secondary to my having lied and cheated. I certainly didn't like having to face that awful reality, but I did, and I am, with great remorse.

I am on a path of self-discovery, which means that I am moving forward, learning as I go. What I thought would be a liberation, a sense of freedom, has turned into a trip to Hell.

Writing in this forum about what I'm learning thru this trial by fire has been a blessing for me. I'm sorry if my publicly documented journey is becoming tiresome for you (who could blame you for feeling fatigued with the intensity of these interchanges?). I can only request that I not be held to something I assumed weeks ago. This last month has seemed like a year to me. In that brief period, I have blown my entire world to bits, and ripped to shreds my wife's neat picture of our life together.

Thanks again for all of your comments and for your patience with a very lost and pained bi man in Tennessee.

[swmnkdinthervr]

It seems to me (my two cents) that to a large degree people (reads everyone) forget this is a public forum. What you put up here for scrutiny is going to be viewed/understood in many different ways, probably as many as there are people...but when it's all said and done it's still just a forum!!!

People insist on taking themselves seriously...and insisting others do so also...geez people, lighten up!


now...back to your regularly scheduled "discussion" :cool:

[tenni]

It seems to me (my two cents) that to a large degree people (reads everyone) forget this is a public forum. What you put up here for scrutiny is going to be viewed/understood in many different ways, probably as many as there are people...but when it's all said and done it's still just a forum!!!

People insist on taking themselves seriously...and insisting others do so also...geez people, lighten up!


now...back to your regularly scheduled "discussion" :cool:

"I kind of understand what you are attempting to write but the part about "insist on taking themselves seriously....and insisting others do so also" seems a bit too much. This is not a joke central website. A lot of us are trying to understand our sexuality and it can get fairly serious for those who are grappling with their sexuality. So...wtf...woman? If you want joke central and not taking certain issues seriously...this may not be the site for you?

As far as dime store psychology...gee my opinions are worth more...say 25 cents...;) ( I know strange thing to post after saying this is not joke central...contradiction does not elude me)

I think that there are several reasons why this might seem like cheap pyscho babble to you Dan. I think that some are being a little too much filling in the blanks to make assumptions but at other times, the poster is also contributing to creating this impression in others. Still, some are far too quick to judge..I agree.

[swmnkdinthervr]

"I kind of understand what you are attempting to write but the part about "insist on taking themselves seriously....and insisting others do so also" seems a bit too much. This is not a joke central website. A lot of us are trying to understand our sexuality and it can get fairly serious for those who are grappling with their sexuality. So...wtf...woman? If you want joke central and not taking certain issues seriously...this may not be the site for you?



Not a woman here...

I too am trying to understand my sexuality but this post is more about how wrong each others view is than offering any info that might help me see my bisexuality more clearly!

People really seem to want everyone else as riled up as they are...I'm guessing they want everyone to take their side! I'm no psychologist and while I have ideas opinions I certainly don't take myself so seriously as to try impress them on everyone else and then get angry (as has been stated here) if everyone didn't agree. Again...TO ME this seems a bit codependent...or taking oneself a bit too seriously!

[tenni]

Oh...sorry sir. I don't know why but today the couple symbol confuses me if the poster doesn't identify which person is posting.

UH..you realize that when you used the word "co dependent" that it is kind of a psych word..;):bigrin:

[swmnkdinthervr]

Oh...sorry sir. I don't know why but today the couple symbol confuses me if the poster doesn't identify which person is posting.

UH..you realize that when you used the word "co dependent" that it is kind of a psych word..;):bigrin:

:eek::bigrin:...so shoot me!


I try to voice everything as a personal opinion you'll notice...with luck those that don't agree won't take me seriously!!!:rolleyes::bigrin:

[tenni]

:eek::bigrin:...so shoot me!


I try to voice everything as a personal opinion you'll notice...with luck those that don't agree won't take me seriously!!!:rolleyes::bigrin:

hmm thanks but I'm not into guns ;) (kid'n)

[swmnkdinthervr]

hmm thanks but I'm not into guns ;) (kid'n)
guess I should said blow me! :eek::bigrin:

[tenni]

guess I should said blow me! :eek::bigrin:

lol

Sure if you will reciprocate...you go first...:tongue:

[swmnkdinthervr]

lol

Sure if you will reciprocate...you go first...:tongue:

No problem! :tongue: (now someone is gonna tell us to get a room!)

[bityme]

I have gotten a kick out of this thread. While I am a psychologist, among other things, I am not a practicing therapist, so you can take anything I say with a grain of salt.

These forums serve many purposes: a place to meet and exchange ideas, to seek assistance, to discuss world views, to gain insight into others thoughts, and yes, to serve as an inexpensive alternative to therapy.

Many of the threads are more like an undirected group therapy session, taking on a life of its own as the attendees share experiences, point fingers, pass judgments, holler and scream at each other, comfort, commiserate, assist, teach, learn, enlighten (and the list goes on) each other.

It just does not seem to be productive to have a pseudo-therapy session about the intricacies of conducting a pseudo-therapy session.

No matter what someone says, their comment can always be characterized several different ways. That's part of the beauty and the bane of the English language. Meanings can be derived from the context, body language of delivery, inflection of the voice, spacing of the pauses, etc. Without the visual aspects of the communication, we often do not form the same impression from the words that the person using them had as the message was constructed. What is meant as helpful may be perceived as judgmental. What is meant as a stinging rebuke can be taken as a compliment. Without a moderator in on the conversation and looking for these nuances, we cannot expect to always be understood the way we anticipated.

I would suggest that it might be more productive to drop the characterization and re-characterization of individual comments and concentrate on the big picture that is being produced. As one of the respondents suggested, if a comment is not agreed with, forget it and move on rather than getting into a mud slinging contest with the author.

Just my 2 cents.:2cents:

[berryhard]

"evryone's got an opinion and are free to tell it as the way they see it" was said, true to a dregree.
yes this is a free country, yes this is a chat forum, and yes you are free to think what you think.
Is it alway nessicary to state what you think ?
isn't is sometimes better to actually hear what others are saying vs working so hard to express your views ?
decorum is gone, think of the number of people who walk up to you in real life and just make unsoliced comments etc, with out even any permission or introduction.

would be a better world if people REALLY listened to one another....

[danreidbarmi]

These forums serve many purposes: a place to meet and exchange ideas, to seek assistance, to discuss world views, to gain insight into others thoughts, and yes, to serve as an inexpensive alternative to therapy.

For me, this forum is a daily addition to therapy, and very helpful, life-saving some days (and I ain't exageratin' about that).


Many of the threads are more like an undirected group therapy session, taking on a life of its own as the attendees share experiences, point fingers, pass judgments, holler and scream at each other, comfort, commiserate, assist, teach, learn, enlighten (and the list goes on) each other.

I love the hollerin' and screamin'. To be clear, what I object to is someone not allowing me to increase my awareness, to evolve my point of view, in essence, to say: "Three weeks ago, you said such and such, so what you're saying now has to be bullshit!"


Meanings can be derived from the context, body language of delivery, inflection of the voice, spacing of the pauses, etc. Without the visual aspects of the communication, we often do not form the same impression from the words that the person using them had as the message was constructed. What is meant as helpful may be perceived as judgmental. What is meant as a stinging rebuke can be taken as a compliment. Without a moderator in on the conversation and looking for these nuances, we cannot expect to always be understood the way we anticipated.

Couldn't agree more. It's so easy to misunderstand an email or online post. I, myself, have caused some massive shit-storms, because my implicite "tone" was taken in exactly the wrong way (hard to believe isn't it - lol). In this forum, I've written light-hearted things that were characterized as "flippant," and informed that certain descriptions of certain people's physical characteristics "said a lot about me." Hey, them's the facts, Ma'am. I just call 'em as I see 'em.


I would suggest that it might be more productive to drop the characterization and re-characterization of individual comments and concentrate on the big picture that is being produced. As one of the respondents suggested, if a comment is not agreed with, forget it and move on rather than getting into a mud slinging contest with the author.

I wasn't aware that mud was being slung. If I've done that, apologies to all -- especially to those with my mud on their faces.

[void()]

I have abstained from commenting here, until now. And only post now as means to apologize to Dan. I apologize for any prejudice displayed toward you, of my responsibility. Further, I apologize for no longer having desire to continue such discussion where Dan may be involved.

This is me being polite, responsible, compassionate and all those other good virtues. I do not feel competent enough to continue discourse with you Dan, much less retain civility at times. Suffice it that I'm agreeing to disagree and moving along. In earnest I do hope you may piece your life together again, return to doing well.

And no, Dan, this isn't exactly about you personally. It's mainly on me. Getting lost on this end and has nothing to do with you. So, I'm, "stopping the bus, Gus." At least for myself.

[mikey3000]

Callme old fashioned but I believe that one should treat people in cyberspace as if they are sitting right accross the table, with civility, no matter where they are.

[danreidbarmi]

Sorry to see you check out, Void. You've contributed a lot to these threads.

Mike, I agree. Respect is always due, regardless of the anonymity. However, that doesn't cure the "misunderstanding" issue. Even in person, well-intended words can be interpreted wrongly (or at least taken far too personally). I'm sure I'm just as guilty as anyone else (on the giving and receiving end) in this regard.

In the meantime, I have yet to find agreement on my basic points: that we avoid overt judgment and allow each other to grow.

Over and out... (and I mean OUT)

Dan

[NotLostJustWandering]

I wasn't aware that mud was being slung. If I've done that, apologies to all -- especially to those with my mud on their faces.

Rrrrreeeeally???? Ooookay, well I did promise myself I wouldn't bother talking to you a second time here, but since you are expressing an apology, let's just sort out what you consider to be mud.

The only time I ever addressed you was to give you some friendly advice in this post (http://main.bisexual.com/forum/showpost.php?p=182990&postcount=17). Your initial reaction (http://main.bisexual.com/forum/showpost.php?p=182999&postcount=20) was polite and you expressed some agreement. Then, four days later, you started this very thread, which you opened by taking two sentences from two different paragraphs from my post, and misconstrued them as a single quote without giving a link to the original so people could read what I said for themselves. You characterized my words as "amateur psychobabble" and "dime-store psychology". Further along in this thread (http://main.bisexual.com/forum/showpost.php?p=183486&postcount=8) you went on to say "I'm sure he thinks he's being compassionate; but, he comes off as "holier-than-thou," "superior," as he issues "advise" from his "grand and wise" perspective."

I'm not going to repeat what people said in response to this; you can go back and read it all again. Just remember that my advice was to drop the self-defensive posturing and let people here defend you when you are attacked. Clearly my advice went in one ear and out the other, as your behavior here has not changed. And now my advice may be too late, as people who used to defend you here are changing their tune. Have you wondered at all why that might be?

So tell me, does your apology for mud-slinging in the "Dime-Store Psychology" thread extend to the dime-store psychologist?

[void()]

Callme old fashioned but I believe that one should treat people in cyberspace as if they are sitting right accross the table, with civility, no matter where they are.

Agree there and that's why I stopped. And now back to lurking for me.

[danreidbarmi]

let's just sort out what you consider to be mud.

First of all, thanks for jumping back in against your better judgment. However, I did not initiate the term "mud-slinging," nor did I characterize you as doing it. If you think it's mudslinging for me to call your advice holier-than-thou and psycho-babble, then I apologize for that. I don't think that should be considered mud-slinging, but...


The only time I ever addressed you was to give you some friendly advice

I don't doubt that for a minute. May I repeat that what I objected to was your (based on previous posts) having questioned me even posing a question for the community, not allowing me to be curious about other's views, to learn and grow publicly. I am not rigid or fixed in my beliefs. I am fluid and trying to evolve.


you opened by taking two sentences from two different paragraphs from my post, and misconstrued them as a single quote

Guilty as charged. Chalk that up to technical ignorance. I was actually impressed that you had been able to use edited quotes from other posts and respond to them individually, so I figured out how to do that by copying and pasting, and may have taken some things you posted out of context -- I didn't think it was, in this case, so out of context as to twist your meaning. If you disagree, sorry.


you went on to say "I'm sure he thinks he's being compassionate; but, he comes off as "holier-than-thou," "superior," as he issues "advise" from his "grand and wise" perspective."

I'm not going to repeat what people said in response to this; you can go back and read it all again. Just remember that my advice was to drop the self-defensive posturing and let people here defend you when you are attacked. Clearly my advice went in one ear and out the other, as your behavior here has not changed. And now my advice may be too late, as people who used to defend you here are changing their tune. Have you wondered at all why that might be?

I am not asking anyone to pick sides here. I've read a lot of what you've written in this forum, and you do tend to come off as some superior, objective being with all the answers. If others don't see it that way, that's fine. I believe your intent is pure, and that you genuinely care. I've tried to clarify what my issue is (that you have refused to allow me to grow and learn and evolve).


So tell me, does your apology for mud-slinging in the "Dime-Store Psychology" thread extend to the dime-store psychologist?

Once again, I never accused you or anyone of mud-slinging (that was someone else). If you're willing to apologize for using cheap-shot arguments to back up your POV, i.e. the "what he said in such-and-such post three weeks ago" defense, and "everybody else here agrees with me that you're wrong and I'm right" defense, which is what I'm hearing, then I'm more than willing to apologize that I used you as an example and your quotes out of context.. Deal?