Little Old Man-hater Me

[darkeyes]

Isn't life fun on this site? It can be challenging sometimes. At times we make the odd silly statement or even blatantly get things wrong.. we are human and we all make daft mistakes and sometimes talk bollox. Some of course are a little bit different, in that they go out to hurt and cause pain, to upset and make the life miserable of long time and new members.. there are a myriad of reasons for this, sometimes stress and anxiety, occasionally depression, there is vengeance, contempt, bigotry and trollism.. and of course there is mysogony and misandry, which can be a bit of a mixture of any or all of these things..

I didn't half walk into it this week when I wrote a best wishes message to a member who had decided to leave and was torn to shreds by a quite unpleasant I would say nasty attack in reply. The cause of this attack is in part my comment about feminism, and the vitriol was quite hard to take. Now I do not intend to have a go at this member, and my apparent often attempts at humour regarding men.. I wasnt accused of mysandry but of being a mysandroyst, a made up word, whcih after reading his vituperatve attacks on me, and on feminism and feminists as best I can tell is no different from mysandry.. but thats not important.

Now I accept if we enter public debate we are likely to be shot down in flames, and that we are often not going to like it very much.. attacks will often be unfair and wide of the mark, and often to our horror they are bound to hit home and be pretty accurate.. Such is the risk we take. We have to take the rough with the smooth and if we give we have to expect it back.. often in spades..

A good old barney erupted about I suppose my mysandry.. and people had a gay old time tearing lumps out of me in one way or another, except for one thing... there was no addressing whether I was indeed mysandrist, and whether the attacks I talk about earlier were accurate and hit the mark.. they avoided the debate on the issue of mysandry and began a row of whether or not my humour when referring to men in posts sometimes was or was not similar to using words like "tranny" or "shemale" and whether such words are or are not pejorative when used by those outside of the transgendered community.. I will state here and now I do think there is a case to be made that they may be right. Certainly for those who are not from my own country, a case can be made for this. In my own country, this is less certain, where the sort of humour I display on such occasions is pretty well established and accepted for what it is.. a laugh good fun and a general giggle.. earthy and irreverent, it is used by both genders to describe each other and generally any objections are not that it is offensive but that it is smut. If I am at fault here it is my underestimation of how humour often fails to travel between cultures.

Now to get on to my main point, and this is the charge of mysandry which has been laid against me. This I refute absolutely without any reservations whatever.. I may be a feminist, I may be lesbian, but I am not a man-hater.. my feminism is not the most important thing in my life, because it is merely a part of, subsumed by and subservient to my socialism, my pacifism and my humanism. Feminism comes in many shapes and forms and some are anti male, and many feminists who preach such "feminism" can easily be accused of bigotry. I am not such a "feminist". Feminism and the feminist beliefs, being but a part of three much more important creeds all of which I live for wiith a passion, does not allow me the luxury of hate, and they do not allow me at any stage to believe that I am any better than any other human being of whatever gender on this planet, or to do other than believe that what we get out of life we must get on merit, not privilege, not wealth and certainly not gender. I have written a great number of posts on this site and it is my wish and dreams for a better world, where all people are free and equal in the eyes of the law and of society, without oppression, without fear or conflict, free from want and from ignorance, which has determined what I say and how I act. Ever since I first posted in these forums, my stand on this has been unwavering, consistent and absolute. And free from bigotry and intolerance toward other human beings on the basis of their race, gender or faith. All people, men and women of all nations of all faiths. If what I believe makes me mysandrist, then I would have to plead guilty, but for one who finds it almost impossible to hate, who loves her fellow human beings so deeply, who lives her life to try and be of some benefit to them, irrespective of genderin her own small way, I do resent being called bigot, loathe being accused of man hating and considered a mysandrist. I am neither of these things.. certain ideas I hate.. loathe.. and say so..but not people..

I do not deny that I feel aggrieved and deeply wounded by these accusations.. as would any sensible and sensitive person.. as would any decent human being who was being called liar...

[_Joe_]

You once said you liked me.

And I'm a man last I checked.

[Bluebiyou]

Yes, Fran has written some expressions out here that are not gleaming supports of male ego.
Yes, it is (perhaps intentionally) ironic that Joe (with the picture of the black woman and "centipedes... vagina" caption) was the first to respond. We males often say and display somewhat mysogynist things often without thinking deeply or later admitting to it. (Sorry, Joe, I don't mean to pick on you, you don't strike me as a bad person, you just presented an immediate example).
We, as society tend to ignore mens' verbal and nonverbal faux pax towards women.
We, as society do expect women to be nurturing and are far less tolerant of women doing the same things (same magnitude, just different polarity).
I have perceived most of Fran's comments as gentle humor. Granted, as when men use the same humor, there is a seed of truth about hidden anger.
I accept that in her and many others (including myself).
Fran has also done what few of us males have done. Sincere self examination.
Rather than be an angry, man-hating, castrating-woman, lesbian, she's one of the leading anti-male-circumcision people on this site.
Think about it.
She could give gentle support to an action still allowed by society or even remain supportingly silent. To truly militant misandrogistic lesbians, no social action salutes the misandrogist flag like male circumcision. (Hey, if the doc 'accidentally' cuts off more, then all the better!) Any attack on a penis is a good attack (the only good injun is a dead injun - reference).
But Fran doesn't. She is a rare jem in that she knows balance.
I also like Ian too, a gentle soul - who life has ripped a new one lately.
I don't want to get between two people I like when they have a disagreement, but some comment is merited here.
Ian has a particular sensitivity, many guys do, including myself.
It's hard for me to take it as gracefully - as others take it when I dish it out.
So, if (guys) we're going to criticize Fran, we (guys) need to criticize Joe and other guys just as scrupulously when they do the same thing (just different polarity).
I don't see Fran so different. Funny comments, sure. A little distasteful, sure. A seed of anger, sure. But 'hate' talk? No.

Sorry Joe, once again. Please don't take offense. None intended I assure you.

[elian]

<nuzzles> Fran

[DuckiesDarling]

Fran, I love you like a sister and like a sister I'm gonna post some hard truths. The original post where Ian mentioned something that was bothering him. You responded that there was no feminism on this board. Aidan posted that he saw you ignoring where Ian made a specific remark to you indicating that he had an issue with your term "lesser mortal" You went on the attack and quite firmly stated you will never stop using that term and that you use it jokingly. It was brought out that you defend one person's right to tell everyone not to use a term THEY find offensive. Well it's been made plain to you by at least three males on this board they find your use of the term "lesser mortals" offensive and a complete contradiction of what you state you want, equality for all.

There will never be equality for anyone as long as people continue to use terms like "lesser mortal" in regards to men no matter they think they are joking.

There was no reason for Ian's post directed at you when it all fairness it was more a rant about the extreme feminists that make a name for themselves bashing males.

You may not bash men, but Fran honey, the term is clearly offensive to some yet you defend your right to use it. And you take offense to others stating they don't want to be told not to use a term for friends that they are told by friends to use.

Show me one man that requests you call males lesser mortals. Just one on this board that actually feels they deserve to be called a lesser mortal. We are all on this planet together. There will be no future without both male and females of the species, even one fish that changes to a male if there are no other males in the tank. Males are needed to survive.

So honey, it's been made clear that not one, but three males find it offensive no matter it's dismissed as "English humor" Not everyone on this board is English and not everyone on this board finds English humor funny.

Your response in creating this thread was a bit overdone, I didn't see anyone blasting you as man hating but they did raise a good point about hypocrisy. You are saying do as I say but not as I do because I am above you, I'm not a lesser mortal.
:2cents:

[elian]

Hmm, this reminds me of the time I heard Coretta Scott King speak once.

Up until that point in time I had always thought that "non-violence' meant that if you were confronting someone in a protest or demonstration, that you did not beat them over the head with a stone.

Just by her shear presence in the room you could tell that to Coretta Scott King, violence in thought was STILL violence. She was quiet, but at the same time a powerful, graceful presence.

I don't know if I will ever get to that point, to REALLY recognize that the thoughts I think, and the resulting words I say can potentially set things in motion that I had not imagined.

From my limited experience it seems the truth is there is much hurt from all sides regarding gender roles and behaviors. Just like anything else in nature I believe that in gender there is a capacity for great compassion, as well as wicked malevolence. I hesitate to label any one person on the basis of gender - so much of our behavior is learned - sometimes even twisted away from where a person really wants to be in their heart.

I forgive Fran, because I know every one of us is human. At times I'm ALSO outspoken. I hope people will forgive me and know that ultimately I want the best for all of my friends (as I imagine Fran does as well).

Those in the "majority" would do well to recognize the power and privilege that we have without even asking for it - sometimes we take it for granted. As LGBT people we should all know what it feels like to be on the outside looking in.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W9pu_tg9RAY

Treat each day as the gift it is. Recognize that every person is a treasured part of creation and that you are not alone. I know that at times life can seem pretty shitty but please use whatever time, talent and resources you have to make a positive impact where you can. In the end, it will make a difference.

[Pasadenacpl2]

I, for one, was very specific in saying that I had always taken your use of "lesser sex" as tongue in cheek and not a sign of mysandry.

I, however, do maintain that one cannot say 'this is ok because in context it isn't mean to be offensive' and not allow others to say the same thing.

I think you get that. I don't want you to stop using 'lesser sex.' It's cheeky, it's quaint. It's occasionally funny. If someone gets offended by it, I'll tell them the same thing I told Marie. Serious mountain/molehill territory.

It's all about intent and context. If you are demeaning me by calling me the 'lesser sex' while I serve you coffee, then I'll take offense. If you are just poking a bit of fun when I do something "incredibly male" then I won't.

If I am looking down my nose and sneering 'what a pretty tranny' then there is cause for offense. If I'm at a local BDSM party and I tell Krystal that she is a pretty tranny, she'll give me a kiss for the compliment.

Intent. Context. Connotation. Denotation. They are important. They are essential to understanding. And without understanding, we are only reacting on an emotional level. That does no one any good.

Pasa

[Long Duck Dong]

lol yeah pasa I agree.......

I am the type of person that likes to be addressed as a equal, not a victim or a lesser mortal but somebody worthy of conversing with on a equal level.... as its the same way that I address others..... I believe that each person can and does make valid statements when talking on a equal level with others.....

in part there have been times when the term * lesser mortal * has annoyed me.... as many many of us * lesser mortals * have battled world wars to protect the rights of others to exist on this earth, and to protect our freedoms..... and to be seen as a * lesser mortal * by a non combatant that has been quick to pass judgement on a less than nice aspect of human life, and the people that undertake that role, is something that did totally piss me off.....

that has a lot to do with why I reacted so angrily in past threads when the debate has arisen.... then I looked at it from the other point of view.... if * lesser mortals are the ones that fight the wars and die for freedom and protection of rights.... then it must be the * superior mortals * that point the finger and pass judgement on others, while enjoying the freedoms they never fought for.......

yeah, lesser mortal and proud of it.... the battles I fight are for everybody... including the *superior mortals *.....

[darkeyes]

<nuzzles> Fran

:eek:

*thinks.. cheeky bugga*

*grabs Elian.. snogs 'im mercilously*:tong:

[darkeyes]

English humour Darlin' darlin'? :tong:

[darkeyes]

Yes, Fran has written some expressions out here that are not gleaming supports of male ego.


An that me darlin' is in part, very often wy I act and speak as I do.. am but a pin prickin a balloon..:)

[Hephaestion]

English humour Darlin' darlin'? :tong:

Well spotted

[darkeyes]

We went out last nite wiv me m8s.. gud nite an all even if me is feelin' lil ruff this mornin...

Got 2 pub wer they wer all sittin there lookin stupid an wondad wtf wos goin on.. an then they cows started..

#Manhater, kicks men's nuts hard..

Ty guys me luffs u an all... :(:eek:

[NotLostJustWandering]

I would rather Fran simply apologized, promised to be more considerate or at least consistent on the offensive language issue, and put an end to this. But as long as she sees her behavior as something to defend, I applaud her starting a new thread for the topic and letting Ian's thread return to its original purpose. Glad to see more people offering him consolation and support there.

[Canticle]

Fran

Keir Hardie is proud of you.

Don't dare change.

[darkeyes]

I will apologise Atiq, me luffly, if an when I feel I have something to apologise for..:)

.. but still some peeps will keep harpin on bout me poor much maligned sense a humour.. not the subject on hand..;)

.. an the whole issue raised its ugly head cos of a message of love and support.. maybe I shud jus shut me gob in future.. kno ther r lots who wish it so..:tong:

..an I still wish Ian nothing but well.. we all think as we do for reasons of our own.. I bear him no ill will for that, and I hope in time maybe he will look more kindly upon me..:)

[NotLostJustWandering]

First, Fran, a note on your "personal observation" that we lesser mortals don't practice as good hygiene as the fairer sex:

Since you are not a Muslim, were born and live in the West, and are a lesbian and therefore probably do not practice anal sex, I'm going to take an educated guess that you don't wash your bum with water after taking a dump, but think it sufficient to give it a wipe with tissue paper. If so, your standards of hygiene are lower than mine, every observant Muslim, and some -- though sadly far from all -- of the lesser mortals who enjoy bottoming for other lesser mortals.

Wish more of my bottoming brothers would take a dose of this Shariah, but lest you score a point on this one, let me add that more than once in my life, I have been about to express hetero affection in cunnilingual terms only to discover the girl didn't understand the need to clean the oven once in a while. :eek:

Neither have I observed men failing to shower, brush teeth, etc. as often as women. My personal observations do not confirm yours. Perhaps you simply have an aversion to male pheremones, ever consider that?

Secondly, let me make it clear that I am not demanding you change your behavior around here, I am just

a) letting you know that yeah, I find it offensive and no, I don't see anything funny about it, and
b) calling on you for your double standards, taking Marie's side on the PC language policing, and expecting us to remain cool about your remarks about men.

Am I making a mountain of a molehill? I have never seen your remarks fit to comment on before, and my appreciation of all you say here far, far outweighs my irritation at your testes-kicking. I see that overall you are a very caring and compassionate person, and I like you. But in the context of Ian saying he couldn't take any more male-bashing, you denied doing that and then went on to do more of the same. Insist if you like that it wasn't male-bashing but "good-natured UK humoUr", but in response to Ian feeling pushed to the edge and saying good-bye to us... ? What about your own comment about "context is everything", do you really mean that? This web site is not a comedy club in England.

At this point, other guys broke the silence and expressed that they took offense at your frequent remarks. I felt the need to chime in, as a man and as a lover of men. Silence would not have been right.

This puts me in an uncomfortable position. I do not want to make too much of a relatively small thing I dislike about what you post, and to stand up for men in today's political climate takes guts and yet seems unmanly. We still expect each other to be Sir Galahad in public even as we gripe privately to each other about getting yet another cloak trampled in the mud. Do not imagine that because so far only a handful of men have come forward to say your comments aren't cool, that there aren't a lot more men quietly thinking the same thing but aren't ready to come forward and risk being branded as a sexist or anti-feminist.

But I am NOT taking your/Marie's side on the PC language issue. Continue to enjoy your right to call me a lesser mortal. It just gives me the right to call you a stinky-butt kafir bitch. I might want to do that one of these days.

Thanks again for starting the new thread. :kiss:

[Bluebiyou]

There are ways of telling...

We burn witches. We also burn wood. Therefore witches are made of wood.
Wood floats; (perhaps very small rocks)...
But so do ducks.

So, logically...

If Fran weighs the same as a duck...

She's made of wood...

And therefore...

A witch!!

Burn her!

[darkeyes]

Well I never.. we have en-suite bedrooms in our house Atiq.. and each bathroom has a bidet.. that includes both bathrooms which are stand alone.. and I have never said that all men are unhygeinic, I have said that in general their hygeine standards are not as high, and some are positively revolting.. but then I know some women who are no better.. they are what in my part of the world are known as "clarty bitches", but that there are, in my observation and experience more clarty men, than there are clarty women .... but darlin', clarty stinky-butt Kaffir bitch I am not...;)

But in general I do take the points you try to make whether or not I agee with any or all of it..:)

[darkeyes]

There are ways of telling...

We burn witches. We also burn wood. Therefore witches are made of wood.
Wood floats.
But so do ducks.

So, logically...

If Fran weighs the same as a duck...

She's made of wood...

And therefore...

A witch!!

Burn her!

*laughs*.. have been called that an all Blue..:bigrin:

[Bluebiyou]

And to help all understand Scottish:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9oKdUFCoVo

[NotLostJustWandering]

women .... but darlin', clarty stinky-butt Kaffir bitch I am not...;)


I'll have to come up with some other term of endearment, then.

[darkeyes]

I'll have to come up with other term of endearment, then.

Daft tart will do Atiq:tong:... even stupid on occasion:eek:.. cos sumtimes can b that 2..:rolleyes:

..an believe me.. don take offence at spoilt brat eitha.. cums wiv bein daddy's yungest an favritist babba..:bigrin:

[curious married m]

AHHHHHH I know Fran luffs me. I am after all her fave Ole Goat. :):tong:

[darkeyes]

AHHHHHH I know Fran luffs me. I am after all her fave Ole Goat. :):tong:

Awww Curio.. me huggly ole goat.. an me fave ole coot as well.. nev forget ole coot..:)

[curious married m]

Awww Curio.. me huggly ole goat.. an me fave ole coot as well.. nev forget ole coot..:)

Hmmmmmm, ONE more post and I will hit the 250 mark after 8 years here.
Maybe a post about that 3some I have dogged Fran for ALL these years.

He he he:devil::cutelaugh

[darkeyes]

*laffs* Don getcha hopes up ya mucky ole sod... mite letya sit in middle on couch but the knickers stay decidedly on!! An pity help ya if me c's ya fumblin' wivya trousers.. don' give a bugga that its only that yas hutchin n squirmin cos ya need loo...:tong:

btw.. the bidets r for washin ya bum.. not forya feet!!!;)

Muaaaaaaaaah!!

[Realist]

I've heard that the word "sumbitch", in Texas, was a term of endearment!

Like:

"Hey, Harry, you ol' sumbitch, how're you doing?"

or....

"My brother's a real cat, the sumbitch's always dating the hottest women!"

Etc, etc.....

In other locations, saying that would hurt feelings, even start a fight. Without knowing how people are and think, in different localities, you might be misunderstanding their reasoning, or what they really mean. As mostly English-speaking folks, we should understand that words may have a different meaning, even within the same country.

Like the old saying that goes something like this, "Walk a mile in my shoes, before you condemn me".

In my view, we're all guilty of taking ourselves too seriously. Too many assumptions have been made, recently, and I think we've read between the lines, too much, also. Personally, I'm going to try to be a little more forgiving, flexible, and more tolerant of others' views and comments. If asked, I will try to give my honest views, while trying to be as succinct as I can.

If I find something distasteful, or I vehemently disagree, I'll just stay out of it. Belaboring a point of emotional contention is usually fruitless, anyway. The more angry and irritated you get, the more you'll turn the other person against you.

I found that out, the hard way!

[H0wardmoon]

I honestly read this as "Little Old Man" hater. And I though who could hate little old men?

[darkeyes]

I honestly read this as "Little Old Man" hater. And I though who could hate little old men?

Me Gran.. she loathed lil ole men.. most of all me grandad.. mind u .. she h8ed young men, middle aged men. yung men, boys, women no matta ther age an all, 'er kids, 'er grankids.. speshully guess who?? H8ed Scottish men wiv an espeshul ardour.. me dad neva stood a chance.. only thing worse 2 'er than a scottish man wos an Irishman.. poor mum.. she wos nev forgiven for marryin me dad an contaminatin the blood... not that she wudda been forgiven whoeva she married.. Did hav time for the vicar tho 2 ward the end.. if only cos she thot she saw wer she wud end up.. an if that place exists.. gonna havta learn 2 play the harp.. ya reckon me has a chance??? :tong:

[Hephaestion]

The appalling thing about all of this is that scientifically the "lesser mortal" title is absolutely, on the button, correct.

That is its origins and therefore as a cynical / humorous term of endearment.

What to know more? Then spend some time reading.

[darkeyes]

The appalling thing about all of this is that scientifically the "lesser mortal" title is absolutely, on the button, correct.

That is its origins and therefore as a cynical / humorous term of endearment.

What to know more? Then spend some time reading.

Ya mean me wosn the 1st???:eek:

:tong:

[Bluebiyou]

By the way, Scottish tart,
in that link I left, the video, was Robin Williams actually making intelligible sounds in Scottish? :eek:

[darkeyes]

By the way, Scottish tart,
in that link I left, the video, was Robin Williams actually making intelligible sounds in Scottish? :eek:

No hun he wosn.. he wos makin somewot intelligible sounds in an approximation of 1 form of Scots... an it shows 'e's been in Billy Connolly's company too often...;):tong:

5 outa 10.. cud do betta...;)

ps.. am a big fan a Connolly by the way.. so thats not a big criticism..:)

[mikey3000]

I don't find "lesser mortal" at all offensive. I kind of expect it from her kind. Besides, rebellion is expected after we unshackled them from the kitchen and let them become educated. Don't you agree?:eek:

Relax!!! I'm only joking.
I think...
Maybe..
:tong:

[darkeyes]

I don't find "lesser mortal" at all offensive. I kind of expect it from her kind. Besides, rebellion is expected after we unshackled them from the kitchen and let them become educated. Don't you agree?:eek:

Relax!!! I'm only joking.
I think...
Maybe..
:tong:

..an wot kind is that Mikey dear?:)

... an u lot didn unshackle us.. our mums an grannies broke the shackles, gaveyas a gud talkin 2, an took wot we wanted outa life.. so peeps like me, cooks of lil talent an a loathin a detergent, dish cloths, towels an scourin pads (wich r not gentle on the hands) cud do summat more useful wiv our lives... besides, ne girl worth 'er salt will insist on a dishwasher.. eitha 1 a wich works wiv leccie or even betta.. hav 1 a u lot come in eitha as a guest, lodger, lover, hubbie or employee an do it for us.. 'cordin 2 me mum.. dishes is men's work..:tong:;)

[CuddlyKate]

..an wot kind is that Mikey dear?:)

... an u lot didn unshackle us.. our mums an grannies broke the shackles, gaveyas a gud talkin 2, an took wot we wanted outa life.. so peeps like me, cooks of lil talent an a loathin a detergent, dish cloths, towels an scourin pads (wich r not gentle on the hands) cud do summat more useful wiv our lives... besides, ne girl worth 'er salt will insist on a dishwasher.. eitha 1 a wich works wiv leccie or even betta.. hav 1 a u lot come in eitha as a guest, lodger, lover, hubbie or employee an do it for us.. 'cordin 2 me mum.. dishes is men's work..:tong:;)

How lucky I am to have you for such a menial task, darling. It makes my heart sing to know you love loading the washer and getting down to scrubbing Pots and pans, wiping down the bunkers and getting rid of scraps.:)

A truly liberated lady.:tong:

[darkeyes]

Nowt quite like makin sure me keeps me feet firmly on ground huh yummie gorge person? Credibility battered yet 'gain..:(

Will getcha back...:bigrin:

[void()]

Here is part of why I've been more withdrawn from this site in general.
It is nothing but a crock to label others. Carnegie said it well. "Any fool may criticize and often they do."

Fran a man hater? "I must have woke up in an alternate universe again, one where Fran is a completely straight woman that enjoys being a bitch. Oh wait ... nah, it's still the same verse. Fran is just Fran, love her or not she is still Fran. Sort of works out like that for most folks, they are what they are, no more or less. Wish the damnable idiots and morons would get a clue. TV Land rejects are fine down the hall to the left, c'ya."

So, I stay away. Tired of bullshit immature games which serve no purpose at this point.

Those who know do not say and those who say know not.

I know Joe, Bubba, George, Fran, Kate, Csr, Frank, Gene, Julie, Ozzy, Iggy, Soda and of course, Pop. So, why you gonna try telling me these folks are anything? It won't wash, sorry. That was period, full stop.

If you are trying to discredit folks, don't discredit folks that are known. Because, if simple common knowledge doesn't reveal bull, then a simple asking a friend will. "Hey Fran, SoAnSo here says you're a man hater, any word in that? ... Thought not."

But then that might be your game, too. Make it look amateurish. If so even that fails because you get the same response, shut out at the gate. There is no entry for you. And forget the psyche arena, too. I emulsify.

So, this is why I lurk further away. But for those whom are friends, I am but a whisper away. Yes, the polite shadow there just glinting past view. :)

[man65here]

Mountains and Mole hills

I can not believe that people take offense at simple words, I have been called many things and laughed at all of them. It may be insulting, but consider the source and let it go. Let us get on with serious discussions of issues that effect all of us.

We all make statements that others feel are insulting, most times we or at least I don't mean to hurt anyone. I also don't care if she hates men, I would rather not be hated, but if it's her opinion and I respect her right to have it.

Arguing over the way something is worded or a remark make us look small. We are all entitled to our opinions.

nuff said(end of rant)

[ubersmack]

Don't worry Fran. I am a little old man hater to. Thier so wrinkly and have bad attitudes. :cutelaugh

"Get off my lawn you DAMNED kids."

[darkeyes]

At beginnin a term on a luffly sunny evenin wos leavin school an makin me way 2 me car, was only a little distance away from the car saw a lil ole man an 'is wife totterin along the pavement.. cud see 'e wos strugglin cos 'is legs obviously wern quite wot they used 2 b.. wot the daft ole coot do? 'E stopped..plonked 'is arse on bonnet of me car an dropped 'is walkin stick wich had a metal horsey handle on side 'im wiv a clunk.. cudn believe me eyes... me gob hit the floor an asked 'im wot did 'e think 'e wos doin.. he answered in the most "polite" terms "Restin ma fuckin erse whit the fuck dae think Im daein ya bitch an whit the fuck has it got tae dae wi u onyhoo...?"

Now it may be that me original question had an offhand tone, but while I'm not a car freak, I do not expect me car 2 be used as eitha a public leanin' post or a park bench! As there was a wall on the other side of the pavement it would have been just as convenient and probably easier for him to plonk his backside on that, than land his beam end on my car bonnet.. thats where his lady (if thats what she was) sat and it seemed logical to me..

So the old fool got the sharp end of me tongue and told to move sharpish or he would not only have a bill landed through his letter box for cleanin of me car but I would check in minute detail for ANY scratch which resulted from his clattering his walking stick on top of MY car bonnet and HE would be expected to pay for it being made good..

Ordinarily I am a sweet soul as all know, understanding of the infirmities of the elderly.. but when people take liberties with what does not belong to them and do not act with due consideration and THEN give me a gobful of abuse, I'm afraid I react.. I do not like the attitude that some of the elderly think that we owe them a living just cos they are old and that they can do what they like with someone else property.. he got up me nose and he caught an earful.. is that the type of little old man you refer to Uber? The grumpy old sod variety?

[_Joe_]

Yes, Fran has written some expressions out here that are not gleaming supports of male ego.
Yes, it is (perhaps intentionally) ironic that Joe (with the picture of the black woman and "centipedes... vagina" caption) was the first to respond. We males often say and display somewhat mysogynist things often without thinking deeply or later admitting to it. (Sorry, Joe, I don't mean to pick on you, you don't strike me as a bad person, you just presented an immediate example).
We, as society tend to ignore mens' verbal and nonverbal faux pax towards women.
We, as society do expect women to be nurturing and are far less tolerant of women doing the same things (same magnitude, just different polarity).
I have perceived most of Fran's comments as gentle humor. Granted, as when men use the same humor, there is a seed of truth about hidden anger.
I accept that in her and many others (including myself).
Fran has also done what few of us males have done. Sincere self examination.
Rather than be an angry, man-hating, castrating-woman, lesbian, she's one of the leading anti-male-circumcision people on this site.
Think about it.
She could give gentle support to an action still allowed by society or even remain supportingly silent. To truly militant misandrogistic lesbians, no social action salutes the misandrogist flag like male circumcision. (Hey, if the doc 'accidentally' cuts off more, then all the better!) Any attack on a penis is a good attack (the only good injun is a dead injun - reference).
But Fran doesn't. She is a rare jem in that she knows balance.
I also like Ian too, a gentle soul - who life has ripped a new one lately.
I don't want to get between two people I like when they have a disagreement, but some comment is merited here.
Ian has a particular sensitivity, many guys do, including myself.
It's hard for me to take it as gracefully - as others take it when I dish it out.
So, if (guys) we're going to criticize Fran, we (guys) need to criticize Joe and other guys just as scrupulously when they do the same thing (just different polarity).
I don't see Fran so different. Funny comments, sure. A little distasteful, sure. A seed of anger, sure. But 'hate' talk? No.

Sorry Joe, once again. Please don't take offense. None intended I assure you.

I rarely pop into this forum as much as I used to, and picked a random day to wander in and read this. It was pure luck I was replying when I did I assure you.

I haven't gotten to know many of you as much as I would like, and vice versa, nobody here knows the little gears in my head either. I keep hearing folks moving on and leaving here, problem is it seems they are not going anywhere ELSE, which sucks as I keep coming back to new faces but same old bickering.

[darkeyes]

I rarely pop into this forum as much as I used to, and picked a random day to wander in and read this. It was pure luck I was replying when I did I assure you.

I haven't gotten to know many of you as much as I would like, and vice versa, nobody here knows the little gears in my head either. I keep hearing folks moving on and leaving here, problem is it seems they are not going anywhere ELSE, which sucks as I keep coming back to new faces but same old bickering.

The thing about .com Joe darlin'.. is that like real life, people have their own views and opinions and like to, and have the right to express them.. bickering maybe, but thats just another word for arguing, disagreeing... and that sweetheart, is something which is important and healthy.. what is petty to one is not so to another.. what is right and proper to another is a great offence to some.. :)

[Realist]

Joe,

I feel the same way, but I think this kind of thing goes in cycles. I just try to correspond with those, who share the same interests, while staying out of the abrasive comments. I didn't come here for conflict. I live in a location where there's very few gay, or bisexual folks and this has been a haven for me in the past. I'm not leaving, either.

I'd like to tell you, I miss your sense of humor and you have cracked me up more than a few times. I think most of us feel the same way, so don't stay away.

I hope that the interesting and enlightened subjects aren't overwhelmed by the bitter rhetoric.....and the cycle returns back to the amiable way members were when I first joined.

[jem_is_bi]

Winter is almost here. So, I raked the last of the leaves today and cleaned them out of the gutters. Some inconsiderate person let their dog wander into my yard and crap. I found it today as I raked the leaves. I was mad for 10 seconds. But, I left it where it was, by spring it will nourish the grass and flowers.
Same with what people do to you, their crap can make you mad as hell. But, you can extract from that crap what will make a better you.
I would feel like I was intellectually starving without adverse criticism.