Should I be upfront with a new GF aout being bi?

[c0smonaut74]

Had gfs and a wife know about my bisexuality with varying degrees of success after they found out . do some chicks really dig it or am I doomed to being deceitful to have a gf ? I don't want to do that but being bi complicates otherwise normal relationships .... opinions please ?

[Jobelorocks]

Some women love the bi thing. I like bi guys. They just tend to be few and far between.

I don't suggest being deceitful, that just tends to blow up in your face if they find your porn, see your internet history and see this site, ect. ect. Also if you plan on doing things with guys, if you get caught somehow, finding out by cheating is the worst way to find out. Not to mention it is horribly deceitful and takes away informed consent. They may not be cool with sleeping with someone who is sleeping with other people/cheating. Also if you are lying by cheating, who knows what else you aren't being honest about? They won't know what to trust.

I mean at the end of the day it is all up to you, but I just think it is best to be open.

[elian]

Unless you plan to forgo being bi for this woman then you should tell her, the sooner the better - so she can make up her own mind. If you wait and get more and more involved it will probably only be harder to tell her, and she may resent it.

[Randypan]

Yes, however be prepared to not have a girlfriend. In any relationship you MUST be true to yourself. If you hide this part of yourself from her you are damaging not only yourself but any possibility of a true relationship. If she cannot handle the true you, do you actually belong there?

[Jason0012]

I believe honesty is best. One of my biggest gaffs in a relationship was not disclosing my past with men upfront. All of the women of any importance in my life have been very much into my being bi. I don't think you should have to give up on having a girlfriend because you are bi. I also would like to point out that you cant not be bi. You might give up men but that will still be a part of who you are.

[DuckiesDarling]

I believe you should before things get serious, not telling her about your bisexuality is like giving her a jigsaw puzzle to work and leaving out important pieces so she never sees the entire picture. It's part of you and she should know about it, she should know the real you before she makes any decisions about being in a relationship.

[Herculoid Poirot]

I agree with the group, especially if you have any interest in continuing to have M2M sex. When you do tell her, be prepared to discuss what you want from the relationship: do you expect to be able to continue to have M2M sex? Can you be monogamous? Answer these questions now and the future will be a happier place.

[vaguy1976]

simple answer, YES!!! It's a part of who you are...

[c0smonaut74]

yup , all good advice sadly there are few and far between accepting females in my social circles .... maybe I ought to diversify that a bit ;)

[slipnslide]

There seems to be few situations where the answer to "Should I be upfront?" is no. This isn't one I don't believe.

[LastGent]

Well, in my view, with a relationship I'm trying to get into right now, I have told the other I want to discuss our compatibility. I have written out two pages of stuff about what kind of relationship I want, what kind of sex I like, my sexual history. I want to sort everything out before the first cuddle, and I plan on doing this with every partner. I can't keep secrets anyway, so I just blurt everything out first thing.

[slipnslide]

I have written out two pages of stuff about what kind of relationship I want, what kind of sex I like, my sexual history.

Good grief. Is there an attorney present when you cover the two pages "of stuff"?

[bobble]

The women may be few and far between, but they are out there. Any relationship that starts based upon lies, or lies of omission, is doomed to failure...and ugly failure at that, imho.

[3waytrey]

Tell her - I've been lucky, all of my girlfriends LOVED it, and now, my wife loves it.........with the right girl it is a huge turn on!

[swmnkdinthervr]

If you care to have an honest relationship filled with trust, respect and harmony you have to be totally honest upfront. I'm one of many here that are lucky enough to have an understanding wife/SO/girlfriend. You can't begin a serious interpersonal relationship with the hidden hope that it will be alright to tell your partner later and if you attempt to suppress your true self you will always be miserable!

[VCS1345]

Had gfs and a wife know about my bisexuality with varying degrees of success after they found out . do some chicks really dig it or am I doomed to being deceitful to have a gf ? I don't want to do that but being bi complicates otherwise normal relationships .... opinions please ?

As a man who knows from personal experience, it is best to be open, honest, and upfront right from the start. I knew from the age of 17 that I was Bi. I started dating my wife 20 years ago, been married to her for the last 12 of those 20 years. For 23 years, I hid the fact that I was bi from everyone, including my life mate. It's a decision that I have regretted since coming out about a month ago. You need to ask yourself this question....If my life mate cannot accept and love me for who I am, are they worth having in my life?

[Jorio Solo]

Certainly all good advice given here. A case of honesty being the best policy, if you're interested in the relationship building. Perhaps sound out your girlfriend on the subject first - that way you might be able to gauge the sort of reaction you're likely to get? From experience (some) women like or even love it (albeit maybe reluctantly or secretly, at first). Agree with 3waytrey above, "with the right girl it is a huge turn on!". Do it - could be the best thing you did. Good luck!

[zigzig]

The best might be to be with a girl, who is also bisexual. It can be easier.
Straight girls would probably not understand attraction to both genders.

[NjbiGuy01]

I'm married to a great gal with two great kids. I only came out to her after we were married awhile. It was a mixture of trying to figure out whether to tell her and lose her, or moving on to another woman. I felt she was "the one" and decided to keep it to myself. She understands now, that I consider myself bi. She thinks I am not active anymore, so I have to play on the DL. I don't enjoy that, but I also don't really think of it as cheating, since it's usually with a man or couple. If I had to do it again, I would feel the need to be honest with the gal, especially if we were serious. It's funny, since then (I'm married almost 30 years), the whole climate in the world about this stuff seems to have changed. I met an ex, who calmly said "I have no problem with you being bi, as long as I can be a part of the activity and support you"...gee, wish I knew that 3o years ago ! Another woman who's a friend of mine and I were talking and teasing....and I somehow let slip that I was a bit "open minded"....she says "that makes me very hot just thinking about that". She finds me very handsome and attractive and that little bit of erotic "wild side" really gets her wet.....lol. Hope everything works out for you mate.

[swmnkdinthervr]

I'm married to a great gal with two great kids. I only came out to her after we were married awhile. It was a mixture of trying to figure out whether to tell her and lose her, or moving on to another woman. I felt she was "the one" and decided to keep it to myself. She understands now, that I consider myself bi. She thinks I am not active anymore, so I have to play on the DL. I don't enjoy that, but I also don't really think of it as cheating, since it's usually with a man or couple. If I had to do it again, I would feel the need to be honest with the gal, especially if we were serious. It's funny, since then (I'm married almost 30 years), the whole climate in the world about this stuff seems to have changed. I met an ex, who calmly said "I have no problem with you being bi, as long as I can be a part of the activity and support you"...gee, wish I knew that 3o years ago ! Another woman who's a friend of mine and I were talking and teasing....and I somehow let slip that I was a bit "open minded"....she says "that makes me very hot just thinking about that". She finds me very handsome and attractive and that little bit of erotic "wild side" really gets her wet.....lol. Hope everything works out for you mate.

I hope for the sake of your wife and children you don't get found out before you find it in your heart to be honest OR you bring something home!!! I could never live like that, I would be filled with guilt and remorse...the required lying/deceit would drive me nuts!!! I wish you and your family much luck!!!

[Gearbox]

I hope for the sake of your wife and children you don't get found out before you find it in your heart to be honest OR you bring something home!!! I could never live like that, I would be filled with guilt and remorse...the required lying/deceit would drive me nuts!!! I wish you and your family much luck!!!
He's having sex, not embezzling 1000's from their bank accounts, or selling arms to Al Qaeda.:eek:

[tenni]

"If I had to do it again, I would feel the need to be honest with the gal, especially if we were serious. It's funny, since then (I'm married almost 30 years), the whole climate in the world about this stuff seems to have changed.'

I think that some people who place themselves in a position of judgment are forgetting how much times have changed. Thirty to fifty years ago social climates were quite different. I read recently that as late as 1973 it was considered a mental illness and any homosexual acts might have you locked up permanently in a mental institution where crude electro shock treatments may be used. Sodomy was a crime punishable by imprisonment. You were not bisexual if you were sexually attracted to both men and women as far as most people. You were only seen as a homosexual. The social stigma of thirty years ago is still in the mind of his wife. Even without this horrible approach to same sex activity, we have jealousy, possessiveness, anger. Still, the wife will be seen as a victim by most in the mainstream for not permitting her husband happiness. He will be expected to remain monogamous and her possessive/jealous personal attachment will be rewarded by social approval. He will be accused as not loving his wife by some. Her jealousy and possesiveness to maintain a monogamous relationship will not be seen as negative but acknowledged by some as love. If she loves him, she would want him to be happy rather than condemn him or worse divorce him.

[Jobelorocks]

Gear- No, but they are lying to and betraying the trust of the person they are supposed to love most. Also taking away informed consent from his wife. My husband and I swing, but if he cheated on me I would not consent to sex with him. If he is lying about what he is doing sexually, I don't know if he is being safe or not. For all I know he could be being unsafe and putting my health in jeopardy. Luckily, my husband and I are honest about things.

Tenni- Also no matter what the culture at the time cheating is still cheating. If he can't handle being monogamous and she can't handle him not, then chances are they shouldn't be together.

[NjbiGuy01]

For the record, I play safe, unless I know the person extremely well, a long time, or trust them implicitly (we've been tested). Don't think I'm not burdened with guilt and/frustration fairly regularly. I don't doubt there are many people with varied opinions on the subject.

[FunE1]

c0smonaut:

Yes, being bi does complicate the otherwise "normal" relationship. Still, you are NOT "doomed to being deceitful."

It's all in YOUR hands...

You can choose to tell a GF about your bisexuality... or not. If you tell her, then she gets to freely choose whether to participate, support, or leave.

While both choices may be uncomfortable for you (well, for both of you actually), with potential positive/negative outcomes, they are still available to you , so why the sense of doom?

Personally, I believe that by NOT telling, you are actually denying your GF the same thing you are seeking for yourself: to be able to participate in a sexual relationship openly, honestly, and with full choice in the matter.

[Gearbox]

Gear- No, but they are lying to and betraying the trust of the person they are supposed to love most. Also taking away informed consent from his wife. My husband and I swing, but if he cheated on me I would not consent to sex with him. If he is lying about what he is doing sexually, I don't know if he is being safe or not. For all I know he could be being unsafe and putting my health in jeopardy. Luckily, my husband and I are honest about things.
It IS sad that for whatever reason somebody 'cheats' and betrays the trust of a partner. But it has nothing to do with love or a lack of. There could be a number of reasons why some cheat, and not all intend to 'destroy' their partners trust. As ironic as that sounds!
In your marriage the act of cheating would be particularly senseless, as you have left no room for sexual unfulfillment, and you are open minded as well as straightforward. Your not very common unfortunately.
NO I'm not blaming the partners of cheaters. I blame monogamy more than anything. It created 'cheating'.:tong:

[slipnslide]

It IS sad that for whatever reason somebody 'cheats' and betrays the trust of a partner. But it has nothing to do with love or a lack of.

Are you sure about that Gear? I've been in relationships where I loved and respected the person so much that cheating wasn't even a consideration. I wouldn't want to have done anything to hurt them.

[Jobelorocks]

Gear- I understand that cheating doesn't always have to do with a lack of the love feeling. But cheating is a failure to demonstrate that love. It is selfishness, thinking about yourself and what you want more than caring about betraying your partner. Generally cheating deals with other problems in the relationship which usually, but not always can be resolved. If a compromise or resolution can be found then you should pursue that, if you can't resolve the issue or compromise, just leave.

I have been in monogamous relationships before and I had no trouble not cheating even though I am a bisexual with a high sex drive. Now, not everyone can be monogamous, and those people need to find people who are okay with being non-monogamous.

[darkeyes]

[QUOTE=Gearbox;222674 I blame monogamy more than anything. It created 'cheating'.:tong:[/QUOTE]

Monogamy is a human created way of living... we cannot blame monogomy for anything.. if blame there is the blame lies with humanity as a species.. there is an argument to be made however that we can blame the human beings who created it and impressed it upon human consciousness and morality and those who perpetuate it. and there is equally an argument against blaming either..the most persuasive argument in my view however, is that such is the complexity of our species, and such is its capacity to deceive both itself and others and be dishonest, selfish and greedy, that whatever institution exists to cater for human commitment in matters of sex and the heart, deceit and infidelity will be with us for a long time yet to come..

[Gearbox]

I know I sound like a cheater who supports cheating etc, but NO, never did it, don't support it!;)


But cheating is a failure to demonstrate that love. It is selfishness, thinking about yourself and what you want more than caring about betraying your partner.
Your viewing a 'partner', when the 'cheater' views him/herself as a 'person'. Your also qualifying what passes for 'love' by the rules of a partnership. It just doesn't work! Won't fit!

The plain basic blinding truth is that NOBODY has ownership of another. We may enter monogamy, open relationships etc etc etc abide by it's rules and love each other, but they are fictitious constructs that have absolutely nothing to do with love nor the individuals involved. We can not have jurisdiction over another on that level.
What you are saying is that they break the rules of a contract, which qualifies as a lack of love.

Generally cheating deals with other problems in the relationship which usually, but not always can be resolved. If a compromise or resolution can be found then you should pursue that, if you can't resolve the issue or compromise, just leave.
I fully agree with that. It is so simple, yet doesn't get followed always. It's 'person' V's 'Partner'. They get separated.

[Jobelorocks]

Gear- I always viewed selfishness as the opposite of love, but then again I see love as more than a feeling. Love is feeling coupled with action. Without actions coupled with it, it just seems not to be genuine. I feel that it is all nice and good to have fuzzy feelings, but without actions to back them up, they are useless.

For example if my husband said he loved me and then treated me like shit, I wouldn't believe him.

[tenni]

I do think that the fellow in the OP should inform his g/f so that a rational discussion may take place. Is she one of the women that has issues with personal attachment to the point of being possessive and jealous? If she is, then she is not a suitable partner for a bisexual man. Move on. It will avoid all kinds of problems bimen have found themselves having to deal with. Women are nine times more likely to experience emotional jealousy than men.

Jobel
As a woman, you deal with many discriminations. As a bisexual woman, do you ackknowledge bimen experience more prejudice and discrimination than you do as a biwoman? Bimen in a marriage are more inclined to have their bisexuality rejected as disgusting than biwomen. Even some biwomen consider sexual acts between men as disgusting. Bimen are nine times more likely to experience being a victim of inappropriate unhealthy possessive emotional jealousy from the female partners than biwomen from their male partners. Yet, the same biman is blamed because the female is not capable of loving him enough to allow him to get what he needs. She has self esteem issues and does nothing to heal her issues. She is incapable of a healthy love and damages her relationship. Yet we call her a victim? If she says she loves him but refuses to let him have what he needs to be happy due to her possessive self esteem issues, how is this different than being treated like shit?

"Monogamy is a human created way of living... we cannot blame monogomy for anything."
darkeyes
I agree that monogamy is a human created way of living created by monosexuals and not bisexuals....;) Monogamy supports unhealthy self esteem issues of jealousy and unhealthy possessive personal attachments. They destroy the other half of love...strong affection.

[Jobelorocks]

I do think that the fellow in the OP should inform his g/f so that a rational discussion may take place. Is she one of the women that has issues with personal attachment to the point of being possessive and jealous? If she is, then she is not a suitable partner for a bisexual man. Move on. It will avoid all kinds of problems bimen have found themselves having to deal with. Women are nine times more likely to experience emotional jealousy than men.

Jobel
As a woman, you deal with many discriminations. As a bisexual woman, do you ackknowledge bimen experience more prejudice and discrimination than you do as a biwoman? Bimen in a marriage are more inclined to have their bisexuality rejected as disgusting than biwomen. Even some biwomen consider sexual acts between men as disgusting. Bimen are nine times more likely to experience being a victim of inappropriate unhealthy possessive emotional jealousy from the female partners than biwomen from their male partners. Yet, the same biman is blamed because the female is not capable of loving him enough to allow him to get what he needs. She has self esteem issues and does nothing to heal her issues. She is incapable of a healthy love and damages her relationship. Yet we call her a victim? If she says she loves him but refuses to let him have what he needs due to her self esteem issues. How is this different than being treated like shit?

"Monogamy is a human created way of living... we cannot blame monogomy for anything."
darkeyes
I agree that monogamy is a human created way of living created by monosexuals and not bisexuals....;) Monogamy supports unhealthy self esteem issues of jealousy and unhealthy possessive personal attachments.

Well of course I realize that men deal with more discrimination for being bi (I am not stupid), but that really doesn't change anything. Don't get yourself in a relationship if you can't abide by the rules. No one has the right to cheat, even if they are a bi man. I am not saying she doesn't have issues, but that doesn't give him the right to deceive her, betray her trust, and cheat. If you want to work it out, go to a counselor, talk it out. You can't make anyone do anything though. Just because someone has a flaw doesn't give you the right to cheat. If you can't deal with their flaw and they can't or won't fix it, then LEAVE! No one is forcing you to stay.

I don't care who is being cheated on, they are the victim. Instead of working out their issues or finding a relationship that works for them, the cheater goes out and betrays the trust of their partner and deceives them. With sex we make informed and calculated risks because there are some possible major consequences to having it, like pregnancy or std's. If your partner isn't informed about all the risks (because even with condoms there are still risks. Not to mention that you can get genital herpes with having unprotected oral sex.) then you take away informed consent.

I think that monogamy generally doesn't work. Look at divorce rates. Also I think it is like 60% or men admit to cheating in their marriage and like 45% of women. Most people, yes even "monosexuals" aren't built for monogamy.

[Northerner]

Yes, however be prepared to not have a girlfriend. In any relationship you MUST be true to yourself. If you hide this part of yourself from her you are damaging not only yourself but any possibility of a true relationship. If she cannot handle the true you, do you actually belong there?

I think Randy got it right here. You don't have to tell them on the first date, but if it looks like a relationship is developing, it is better to lay your cards on the table.

[elian]

Good luck c0smonaut74, you never know - she may surprise you..

[tenni]

"Don't get yourself in a relationship if you can't abide by the rules."

Jobel
I agree with you that monogamy doesn't work and as bisexuals we should not support it as a default norm for us and other bisexuals. I agree with you here Jobel that bisexuals should not get into a relationship with possessive people with self esteem issues. They will not love you. The rules however need to be changed from the default monosexual belief that to love is to sacrifice instead of seeing love as empowering your partner to be happy and agreeing to fulfill their needs.

The possessive are the perpetrator of their own and their partner's unhappiness. Let's not place cheating as a greater significance than a failure to be loving. If a person will not love they are the inventor of their own pain rather than a victim. They are the ones cheating on their relationship and fail at loving their partner. I will not grant them the moral ground to stand on if there are consequences.

Society places guilt on the unloved bisexual and the rule is that they are wrong for wanting something other than monogamy. The real problem is that when the mainstream society will defend a possessive person with self esteem issues the position of being just. The society will give credibility to the person failing to love their partner. This rule needs to change.

[swmnkdinthervr]

He's having sex, not embezzling 1000's from their bank accounts, or selling arms to Al Qaeda.:eek:He's having sex behind his wife's back, (lying deceit) what would happen to his relationship with his wife/kids if she found out...especially if she found out because he brought home an STD like HIV??? He might as well be carrying a gun?!?!

[Gearbox]

He's having sex behind his wife's back, (lying deceit) what would happen to his relationship with his wife/kids if she found out...especially if she found out because he brought home an STD like HIV??? He might as well be carrying a gun?!?!
Well judging by many other cheats who get found out, there'd be a big deal made of it. Doesn't mean it IS a big deal though. It's just assumed that there should be.
I'm sure he's not going out to get HIV. There are precautions.

[tenni]

He's having sex behind his wife's back, (lying deceit) what would happen to his relationship with his wife/kids if she found out...especially if she found out because he brought home an STD like HIV??? He might as well be carrying a gun?!?!


Liars and deceitful people that are in government causing tens of thousands of innocent people to die are far worse in my books than a bisexual man whose wife doesn't love him enough to permit and encourage him to fulfill his same sex needs. He shouldn't lie to her. I agree. She should love him and she doesn't. She just says that she loves him and is too selfish and possessive with self esteem issues. If he has told her that he is bisexual that would be the best first step. With all the bigotry towards bimen, it doesn't surprise me that some find this very difficult to impossible with an unloving possessive spouse. If there is not an atmosphere of acceptance and love due to one partner's self esteem and obssessive attachment issues it is more than not a fek'd relationship long before.


It borders on the ridiculous of extrapolations to think that the default mode is a desire to bring home a disease to your spouse. You might bring home a disease that is contangeous accidentally regardless whether it is air born viruses or sexually transmitted. All married men that I've had sex with were cautious. Many have not had sex with their unloving wives for many years and so there is only the possibility that she may get an air born virus or bacteria...not a sexually transmitted disease.

[darkeyes]

Liars and deceitful people that are in government causing tens of thousands of innocent people to die are far worse in my books than a bisexual man whose wife doesn't love him enough to permit and encourage him to fulfill his same sex needs. He shouldn't lie to her. I agree. She should love him and she doesn't. She just says that she loves him and is too selfish and possessive with self esteem issues. If he has told her that he is bisexual that would be the best first step. With all the bigotry towards bimen, it doesn't surprise me that some find this very difficult to impossible with an unloving possessive spouse. If there is not an atmosphere of acceptance and love due to one partner's self esteem and obssessive attachment issues it is more than not a fek'd relationship long before.


It borders on the ridiculous of extrapolations to think that the default mode is a desire to bring home a disease to your spouse. You might bring home a disease that is contangeous accidentally regardless whether it is air born viruses or sexually transmitted. All married men that I've had sex with were cautious. Many have not had sex with their unloving wives for many years and so there is only the possibility that she may get an air born virus or bacteria...not a sexually transmitted disease.Tsk tenni.. no 1 has said they want to bring home a disease.. dont be soft.. but anyone who knows anything about life sex and sleeping around knows that it is always a possibility.. and we are fools if we ignore it... it is right that it is warned about... and if a partner knows nothing of their SO's "nocturnal" habits it is a bit late to then say sorry when they have copped one cos of their SO's shenanigans.. not all men, married partnered or otherwise or women for that matter are cautious or in the least careful... and the younger they are in my experience the less cautious they are...

I know all about ur views on monogamy and I have more sympathy with them than u may imagine, but because a wife, husband or partner does not wish the person they love or shares their life with to go putting it around does not necessarily mean they are selfish and possessive... I think u are more on the bimale kick again here, but its pertinent to any kind of relationship.. and even if polyamory ever becomes established and the norm I suspect there will always be those who wish to have their partner faithful to them and not shag around anywhere else.. yes it is often selfish and it can be possessive but not always and I dont even think it is the case the majority of the time.. my partner expects it of me because thats how she is, but not to be possessive and certainly not selfishly.. she knows I would rather it was other but in a way so does she, but how she is will not allow it of her.. she is anything but possessive and is one of the least selfish people I know, so while I understand and agree with much of what u say I am unable to accept it entirely.. because it simply isnt so..

[ohmymy69]

Well judging by many other cheats who get found out, there'd be a big deal made of it. Doesn't mean it IS a big deal though. It's just assumed that there should be.
I'm sure he's not going out to get HIV. There are precautions.

I would be curious to know how you can be sure he is taking precautions with everyone/anyone...? The damage to children from the potential anger/arguments and possible resulting divorce is no big deal!?!?

Is there here something you know that we don't know?

[foreverbi]

I too would like to know whats best to do about this situation. In my case I told my then G/F (now my wife for 13 years) that I was and am bisexual. She did not run & scream trying to get away from me. On one hand I am sure she thought that was just a phase I was going though & now it's forgotten, but on the other hand she knows I LOVE the taste of cum as every time we have sex I eat our creampie & when she gives me a B/J she holds my cum in her mouth & immediately gives me a French Kiss passing my (our) cum back for me to swallow.

I would never cheat on my wife, but would it be cheating if she gave me the go ahead. What if she just withheld sex (for what ever reason). Would that make my (cheating) justified?

[FunE1]

Forever:

You might want to read this forum:

What is Cheating? (http://www.bisexual.com/forum/showthread.php?12464-What-is-Cheating)

There was a pretty comprehensive discussion with lots of opinions on the matter...

That said, my quick answers to your two questions are: NO and NO.




<---- hehehehe, post 69, hehehehehe

[Gearbox]

I would be curious to know how you can be sure he is taking precautions with everyone/anyone...? The damage to children from the potential anger/arguments and possible resulting divorce is no big deal!?!?

Is there here something you know that we don't know?
I read what he said in post 24. But of course you might not believe that.lol
There wouldn't be arguments and divorce if it wasn't made to be a big deal. It's MADE to be one! That's what I mean.

I don't know who 'we' are, but NO! There's nothing I know that everybody else doesn't.

[The Bisexual Virgin]

For the record, I play safe, unless I know the person extremely well, a long time, or trust them implicitly (we've been tested). Don't think I'm not burdened with guilt and/frustration fairly regularly. I don't doubt there are many people with varied opinions on the subject.

Why don't you tell your wife that you are cheating on her, with a man?

[Gearbox]

Gear- I always viewed selfishness as the opposite of love, but then again I see love as more than a feeling. Love is feeling coupled with action. Without actions coupled with it, it just seems not to be genuine. I feel that it is all nice and good to have fuzzy feelings, but without actions to back them up, they are useless.

For example if my husband said he loved me and then treated me like shit, I wouldn't believe him.
For a theist, you have a strange view of love there.;) I know what you mean.lol

There isn't an act more selfish than possession. You can love as much as you want, but a possession is still a possession until it's free.
So with that for a base, there's plenty of room for being treated like shit on a few levels. It's not ALL about the 'cheater'.

[ohmymy69]

I read what he said in post 24. But of course you might not believe that.lol
There wouldn't be arguments and divorce if it wasn't made to be a big deal. It's MADE to be one! That's what I mean.

I don't know who 'we' are, but NO! There's nothing I know that everybody else doesn't.
Let me see...I cheat on my wife and I lie to her about it, have for many years...do you get where I'm going here, no I probably don't believe anything he says to her or writes here!

Divorce is about something large enough to tear a family apart, while anger isn't always healthy we are all subject to it. Even when parents separate amicably children are emotionally hurt and often take a long time to get over it even under the best circumstances!!! Have you been divorced...with children involved, if so I suspect there was a lot of emotional pain involved!!! If not I really don't think you have enough knowledge to make that judgement...I have been divorced...with children.

The WE was an over generalization...sorry! Sorry also for the thread hijack!!!

[tenni]

darkeyes #41

" if a partner knows nothing of their SO's "nocturnal" habits it is a bit late to then say sorry"
I agree.

I will also restate that I was responding to someone who raised this point. Disease comes in a variety of forms in to our body and we rarely know or welcome it. We also rarely have intent to spread disease whether air born or transmitted through body fluids. I find this repetitively brought up and of little help in understanding the root causes of conflicts for bisexual men with heterosexual female partners. They are precautions that may be used and that is all that we can do whether disease is air born or transmitted via body fluids. Men and women get sexually transmitted disease from their partner even in monogamous relationships. (yeast infections etc.) It is not the most serious infections but still transmitted in monogamous relationships.

"... I think u are more on the bimale kick again here, but its pertinent to any kind of relationship.."
I understand that you might have that perspective as you are a female and lesbian. You seem to be attempting to find relevance in the post to your own life?

However, the specific issue is of a bisexual man asking about disclosing to his female partner. Some things are pertinent and may be raised for all partner relationships. Some issues are specific to bisexual men with hetero female partners. What is important to me is the root causes of these conflicts that bisexual men experience. Disclosure is one important first step but how to lovingly resolve the conflicts and why they are there is needed to move things to a positive resolution. I do not write of lesbian and bisexual female relationships but those relationships that I have experience with.

"yes it is often selfish and it can be possessive but not always and I dont even think it is the case the majority of the time."

Again, you may be referring to situations not connected to a bisexual man and a hetero female partner. I'm not sure what you are basing your opinion on other than your same sex relationship. I think that is an apple/oranges attempt of comparison. I have no facts to tell me that your belief is correct or incorrect universally for all human relationships. I think that if two people regardless of their sexuality are both happy in a monogamous relationship, good for them. I am more interested in understanding how to positively resolve the conflict specific to bisexual men who find themselves struggling with female partners who claim to love. Instead they seem to have these unhealthy, possessive attachment and self esteem issues that prevents them from permitting happiness for the bisexual male partner. That's all.

[Jobelorocks]

Actually no I don't. If you read in 1 Corinthians Ch. 13 you see Love is patient, love is kind, ect. ect. ect. which are all acts. Plus God isn't as "possessive" by our theology as you think. We are given free will and He still loves everyone despite if we choose to follow Him or not ect. ect.

Well many people are monogamous for many reasons. Most are not possession. I know I used to view monogamy as the only option because I believed that if two people loved each other enough and were concentrated enough what the other liked (and didn't like) in the bedroom, then they should be enough for each other. I saw non-monogamy the same as saying, "You are not enough to satisfy me." It had nothing to do with "owning" them or them "owning" me. I think many bisexuals have a little bit of an unfair view of monogamy. Plus also some monogamists just don't want the risks of sleeping around. That also has nothing to do with "possession".

The person who is being cheated on is usually partially at fault as I have said in another post, but that doesn't give the cheater any right to cheat. Instead of working on the relationship and the problems they have, or if those problems cannot be resolved, leaving for a relationship that suits them, they go out and betray their partner and cheat.

[Gearbox]

Let me see...I cheat on my wife and I lie to her about it, have for many years...do you get where I'm going here, no I probably don't believe anything he says to her or writes here!

Divorce is about something large enough to tear a family apart, while anger isn't always healthy we are all subject to it. Even when parents separate amicably children are emotionally hurt and often take a long time to get over it even under the best circumstances!!! Have you been divorced...with children involved, if so I suspect there was a lot of emotional pain involved!!! If not I really don't think you have enough knowledge to make that judgement...I have been divorced...with children.

The WE was an over generalization...sorry! Sorry also for the thread hijack!!!
I've separated with a child, so I suppose I qualify to understand the grief. But you are talking about the punishment for disobedience, by the one who was disobeyed. NOT the cheater or the cheating.

I've never cheated so I don't qualify to make a judgement really, but I do actually talk to them and hear their side. They are people who have a sly fuck without their partner knowing. That's a big crime, only when it's made to be.

[Gearbox]

Jobelorocks, I was joking about the theist view of love. I gave up smoking yesterday and might have been a bit tactless there, sorry.(going insane today.lol). I'm a theist and wasn't criticising it.

I do criticise monogamy, and ANY relationship that becomes more important than the people involved. I also think it's bizarre how easily people become property. That in itself is worse than 'cheating' IMO.
BUT STILL there maybe reasons to cheat, but it's doesn't make it 'Right'. Also there maybe reasons to outlaw sexual freedom, but that doesn't make it right either.

Cheaters exist due to wanting an open relationship with someone who doesn't.lol

[ohmymy69]

I do criticise monogamy, and ANY relationship that becomes more important than the people involved. I also think it's bizarre how easily people become property. That in itself is worse than 'cheating' IMO.
BUT STILL there maybe reasons to cheat, but it's doesn't make it 'Right'. Also there maybe reasons to outlaw sexual freedom, but that doesn't make it right either.

Cheaters exist due to wanting an open relationship with someone who doesn't.lol

We are close to agreeing on one point (scary isn't it!) even though it's outdated I believe monogamy still has it's place, generally people seem to turn it into a possessive role, sadly poly relationships can be guilty of the same thing (neither have to be). Any relationship that insists on putting someone/something before self is inherently wrong and destructive to the person those demands are made on!

By definition cheating is lying/deceit, that is all I was addressing, I never indicated any form of possession although it is a form of control. In my mind lying/deceiving are basically theft of trust/respect etc, it is way too often thrown around in the guise of self justification and is usually very emotionally damaging to both parties. I'm not talking about punishment, except to the victim(s).

I completely disagree with your statement "Cheaters exist due to wanting an open relationship with someone who doesn't." That's like saying thieves exist because nobody wants to to support them...how preposterous!!!

Cheaters for the most part are individuals that are too selfish about their own needs to be honest with their partner, most lie because they want to do what they want to do in spite of any agreements, declarations or promises to the contrary not to exclude the primary promise to be honest with each other!!! I understand your reasoning but but find it faulty!

A sly fuck (anything) is still a lie...even if they aren't caught.

[darkeyes]

Im not trying to relate anything to me or my life Tenni hun.. and almost everything u say can be easily applied to any relationship u like... yes it can be applied to bisexual men with heterosexual partner but play around with the sex and sexuality of any of those u talk about it can equally be applied to them also.. it's a people thing Tenni.. about time we started thinking of each other as human beings and not simply as sexualities or genders... I speak not simply as a gay woman but as a human being... and that is how I prefer to think of everyone else..

[Gearbox]

We are close to agreeing on one point (scary isn't it!) even though it's outdated I believe monogamy still has it's place, generally people seem to turn it into a possessive role, sadly poly relationships can be guilty of the same thing (neither have to be). Any relationship that insists on putting someone/something before self is inherently wrong and destructive to the person those demands are made on!

By definition cheating is lying/deceit, that is all I was addressing, I never indicated any form of possession although it is a form of control. In my mind lying/deceiving are basically theft of trust/respect etc, it is way too often thrown around in the guise of self justification and is usually very emotionally damaging to both parties. I'm not talking about punishment, except to the victim(s).

I completely disagree with your statement "Cheaters exist due to wanting an open relationship with someone who doesn't." That's like saying thieves exist because nobody wants to to support them...how preposterous!!!

Cheaters for the most part are individuals that are too selfish about their own needs to be honest with their partner, most lie because they want to do what they want to do in spite of any agreements, declarations or promises to the contrary not to exclude the primary promise to be honest with each other!!! I understand your reasoning but but find it faulty!

A sly fuck (anything) is still a lie...even if they aren't caught.
We don't call lying&deceiving 'cheating'. There's plenty of that in ANY relationship.lol No we call 'A sly fuck without the partners PERMISSION' - 'Cheating'.
It's exactly the same thing with PERMISSION, but astronomically more prone to biased opinion without it.:bigrin:
That's why you NEVER hear many say "Oh FFS get a grip!" to those 'victims' of NON-PERMISSION. They apparently suffer from a lack of partner control, and it's a terrible 'injustice'?
It's nuts! The reason why some demand exclusiveness is because they respect their own jealousy and insecurities more than the one/s they claim to love. Simple as!
They 'fear' his/her freedom, and BS themselves that it's due to loving them. It's due to not dealing with themselves.

The idea of 'cheating' is obviously due to closed exclusive relationships. You can't cheat unless there's a rule to create it.
Unlike burglary, casual sex in Humans is a completely healthy, natural, sociosexual, behaviour. Jealousy is NOT a healthy Human characteristic, so it's obvious why casual sex would be demonised by some. It's a threat, and does have it's punishments.:eek:

Cheating IS wrong! The requirements of cheating is wrong. Adhering & Defying those requirements is wrong!:)

[Jobelorocks]

By the way I had a friends that were swingers and the husband cheated on his wife. Got a gf on the side that he didn't tell her about and then ended up leaving his wife for his gf. It doesn't just happen in monogamous relationships. Then again they started swinging after he had cheated on her the first time (when they were supposed to be monogamous) and she decided that she wanted to know who else he was sleeping with and she might as well get some nooky on the side as well....lol. So it was kind of an interesting relationship.

[tenni]

"We don't call lying&deceiving 'cheating'.There's plenty of that in ANY relationship.lol"

I have a question for those who keep posting about cheating. This thread is about a bisexual man wondering if he should tell his girlfriend that he is a bisexual. Why do we jump from that to cheating over and over again on this site? There are other issues and steps that should be discussed and shared about this type of situation


Almost everyone that I can recall has told the fellow to disclose his sexuality and not be deceitful. But the word "cheat" was introduced in post 2. Deceit is not cheating as Gear has just stated.

No one has stated that cheating is good and should be step 2 to make a bisexual's life happy.

It is such a waste of energy, counter productive and not positive at all for bisexuals to carry on this way....imo.

[The Bisexual Virgin]

I have a question for those who keep posting about cheating. This thread is about a bisexual man wondering if he should tell his girlfriend that he is a bisexual. How do we jump from that to cheating?

It seems to me that it would be so much more positive for bisexuals to discuss the issues before it gets to cheating. A person probably doesn't want to cheat as a step one. Almost everyone that I can recall has told the fellow to disclose his sexuality.

No one has stated that cheating is good and should be step 2 to make a bisexuals life happy.

This jumping to cheating and condemning biguys happens over and over on this site. It is such a waste of energy and not positive at all for bisexuals to carry on this way....imo.

They are just pointing out to one poster how selfish he is for being a cheater. To me a cheater is doing nothing but wasting someone elses time. And to the OP, yes you should tell your girlfriend about you being bi. She has the right to know.

[tenni]

Yes Bi Virgin
This happens over and over again. As I pointed out there are female partners of biguys who are selfish, inappropriate possessive attachment issues that end up with the bisexual man cheating. Catch 22 don't you think? But how much focus is being paid to that inappropriate possessive attachment of the female partner and how to resolve these road blocks to happiness? Very little. Person versus partner in a relationship is another concept that some may benefit from discussing in a constructive positive way.

[The Bisexual Virgin]

Yes Bi Virgin
This happens over and over again. As I pointed out there are female partners of biguys who are selfish, inappropriate possessive attachment issues that end up with the bisexual man cheating. Catch 22 don't you think? But how much focus is being paid to that inappropriate possessive attachment of the female partner and how to resolve these road blocks to happiness? Very little. Person versus partner in a relationship is another concept that some may benefit from discussing in a constructive positive way.

Well hell tenni, if that;s the issue bi men should not be in relationships to begin with. Relationships are nothing but work, and hardship. Maybe some people, need to stay single for the rest of their life, and have one night stands til they are old, and wrinkle.

[swmnkdinthervr]

Yes Bi Virgin
This happens over and over again. As I pointed out there are female partners of biguys who are selfish, inappropriate possessive attachment issues that end up with the bisexual man cheating. Catch 22 don't you think? But how much focus is being paid to that inappropriate possessive attachment of the female partner and how to resolve these road blocks to happiness? Very little. Person versus partner in a relationship is another concept that some may benefit from discussing in a constructive positive way.
tenni

There are also female partners of bi guys that are accepting of their husbands interest in other men as with my wife...she knew before we got too serious because I was upfront with her. Thankfully because I was honest we now explore together, she knew nothing of this lifestyle before meeting me!

Let's take this a step or two further. Many of those husbands going into what they were completely aware was a monogamous relationship with the knowledge they were bi never let their prospective spouse know. Whose responsibility does it then become and should they be able to step out because they were secretive? Is it somehow the spouses fault, the secrecy somehow makes her the possessive villain??? Were they maybe hopping it would all just somehow work out???

There are likely nearly as many that were honest with there soon to be wives, promising to never stray in their marriage but after a number of years the need becomes too great for them to deal with and instead of discussing their needs with their spouse the step out behind her back never once giving her even a chance to be accepting. Who is selfish/possessive in this scenario??? The wife is again guilty of inappropriate behavior???

Both of the above scenarios are only a few of a myriad of situations, both can also be applied to non-traditional marriages too. I sympathize with those that are in the scenario you describe but you can't throw that blanket over everyone!

[tenni]

Swmdk
Forgive me if I have made you think that this is a blanket situation. What I write about are the females who have inappropriate attachment and self esteem issues and not women like your wife who are genuinely loving wishing to let you be happy.(and vice versa I'm suspect ;)

I think that it is important for posters to be aware that in 2004 a study by Schachner & Shaer report that there are no sex difference in expression of childhood attachments and jealousy but certain adults experience jealousy as a more harmful coping mechanism than others. Jealousy plays a role in sexual attachment for some adults. Schnachner & Shaer state that emotional(romantic) jealousy(possesiveness) was found to be nine times more responsive in females than in males.

"Is it somehow the spouses fault, the secrecy somehow makes her the possessive villain??? Were they maybe hopping it would all just somehow work out???"

No, it is not the hetero wife's fault if the biman fails to disclose. She is not showing any behaviour connected to the man's bisexuality. However, I do hear men state that their wife would never accept their bisexuality and let them have sex with a man. Sometimes, the fear is misplaced. In other cases, I've heard them relate how their wife acts and it does show that she has an inappropriate possessive attachment and self esteem issues damaging the marriage. They may be exhibited by a wife who doesn't permit (let alone encourage) a platonic friendships outside of their marriage relationship. She may show jealousy towards the husband's male non sexual friends or casual female friends.

There are many examples of when/why a biman doesn't disclose and they are all individual. That is not the point to focus on. We all seem to agree that the biman should disclose.

"There are likely nearly as many that were honest with there soon to be wives, promising to never stray in their marriage but after a number of years the need becomes too great for them to deal with and instead of discussing their needs with their spouse the step out behind her back never once giving her even a chance to be accepting. Who is selfish/possessive in this scenario??? The wife is again guilty of inappropriate behavior???"

Again, if she has inappropriate possessive attachment and self esteem issues, he may know from her behaviour in other situations and honest communication has already been damaged. Who is to blame if the wife shuts down communication and refuses to discuss his bisexuality and keeps it open for him to discuss it? She is. I've heard this from married bimen when they have problems with their bisexuality and the wife just ABSOLUTELY refuses to discuss it. The wife states that he is not bisexual and there is no need to talk about it. These women do not love their spouses. They say they do but they are not loving. They abide by monogamy and feel justified to hide behind it for their own personal self esteem issue. btw many of these bimen have so far resisted having sex with other men but are very depressed at times and are in counselling.

As you wrote, you are one of the lucky ones whose wife is not possessive and communicates with you. There are many women who do love their bi husbands but we need to be aware that there can be huge pressures on some bimen.

[axlton]

unless you plan to be monogamous I'd tell her. I'm out to my wife and she's very accepting of my bisexuality. I think one reason she is so understanding is that she's had tons of gay friends over the years and it's made her more accepting of guys like us. so that would be one major indicator of how your gf is gonna deal with it. If she has a lot of gay guys as friends or even just a few then she may not have a problem with it.

Of course I could be wrong, so don't blame me if it backfires on you. I'm just speaking from my own experiences.

[rutemptedalso]

Yep, you don't wanna try telling her later. If you need to end it, it's better to end it now. It will only get more complicated. Just make sure you know your definitely bi before you throw your relationship away.

[cbj4162]

I agree with telling her .... the worst case would be you may have to look for another person who is accepting.

[millerlarry]

great response

[dave_nz]

i think there are more bi guys than you think. they are just to scared to admit it

[RavenEye]

If you tell yourself something enough times eventually you'll start to believe it. And this guy has had 30 years to do it! Hell there's some "things" I have tried to forget about my childhood and I have told myself so many scenarios of what happened that I actually don't remember exactly what happened. (If that makes sense) It's an emotional survival instinct I believe. So if I were in his scenario and told myself that it wasn't cheating, eventually I would start to believe it.

[Sonja]

Be honest, either she will like it or respect it or don't. To deny a part of yourself is being deceitful, to yourself. Also, its not fair to her. You are taking away her right to choose to be apart of it, to support, or leave. And if you hide this from her and she finds out through an accident or cheating, then you both lose. You create a problem further down the line where she is unable to trust anyone and for you it causes yourself to be untrustworthy to yourself. So honestly, the best suggestion is be honest. She will either accept it or not. That is up to her and not you, but you have to give her that oppurtunity to do so.

[c0smonaut74]

Wow , I never expected this many replies - great discussion for the most part .

clarification time - now this girl in particular is really not my "girlfriend" at this point nothing physical but I think there is some mutual interest .

She asked me out of the blue last night about it ( oh how the gossip travels!!) and I was upfront and honest , she was very ok with it , and I was happy that she didn't keep what she heard to herself.
- hard to gauge her response to the knowledge as it all happened by text , I would love it if she thought it was hot but so far I have no idea.

[NjbiGuy01]

It's interesting how different people react differently....... I mentioned this subject to a female friend (over a few drinks). I basically alluded that I was "open minded, and had played with various combinations of partners (including men) in the past". We're both musicians, and we've seen what happens "on the road"... She was surprisingly understanding. She and I have not played (although she makes no secret she would like to hit the sheets), but she said "hey it's cool that you've had that fun, and it don't matter to me, but I'm not into more than two...". I'm fine with that.... It does feel better that I was open about it to her...

[biwife]

YES. You don't want a GF who isn't comfortable with who you are, and she deserves better than to find out 5 years into a marriage by finding gay porn on your computer, like I did with my bi-curious husband. If she drops you because of it, was it a relationship worth keeping? (Still happily married here, btw.)

[jem22]

There are enough women out there who are accepting of it and even into it. Like moi. Be upfront, definitely. Good luck.

[BiDesire]

The answer is simple. Are you wanting to enjoy that with her, or behind her back or not at all.

If you want to enjoy that with her, then you'll need to tell her.
If you're going to cheat on her then you'll just need to deal with the consequence when you get cought.
If you not going to enjoy your bi interests at all then it's a mute point telling her.

If it helps I told mine as our relationship developed while dating. She loves the fact that I'm bi.
I wanted to enjoy it and enjoy it with her and not behind her back.

[drugstore cowboy]

Yeah you should be honest with whoever you're dating as soon as you can. If you want to hide something this important about yourself from a person who you're dating or in a relationship with it's your choice but staying locked in the closet will just come back to bite you in the ass later and the person will just accuse you of always lying to them and they won't be able to trust you.

[axlton]

I've been following this thread for a bit, and feel that I need to chime in on it once again... BE HONEST! When I went into my marriage I wrongly thought that I could put all of my same sex desires behind me... After three years I've found that that simply isn't the case. However I am one of the very fortunate few, that was able to successfully come out to his wife and not only gain acceptance but be allowed to resume m2m sex on occasion. This, however, is not the usual outcome for guys like us. The best thing that you can do is be upfront and honest with any potential partner and gain acceptance from the very beginning. Otherwise divorce is likely in your future. At some point this is likely to come to light later in your relationship and if your gf/wife finds out in any other way than from your own mouth that you are bi the outcome is not likely to be good.