A powerful short film

[12voltman59]

Found this--pretty powerful stuff--figured I'd share it:

http://front.moveon.org/the-gay-rights-video-that-will-send-chills-down-your-spine/?rc=fb.rp


http://youtu.be/ibVlVzGI9y0

[tenni]

Well, it shows the pain that gays experience but

I want to know..what its like
to see a video showing the pain rights and needs of bisexuals from the GLBT community. It was 3:26 minutes into a 5:20 minute video before the word "bisexual" was used. It was used once to be a mid way point between gay and straight when referrring to discrimination. .....Not one person identified themself as bisexual in this video. Homophobia and being Gay was specifically mentioned but not Biphobia or being bisexual. All and more probably applied to bisexuals . It speaks about bigotry and then it only speaks about being gay.

Bi erasure/Biphobic and Bi Invisibility in this video is evident to me.

[elian]

I like this video, especially the idea that debating sexuality can lead to greater acceptance and understanding of the worth of all people.

[Long Duck Dong]

have emailed this video link to a number of groups... it is one of the most powerful pro LGBT videos I have ever seen... and a lot of what they say, can apply to more than just the LGBT......it can apply to anybody that feels like they do not belong, they are a freak, they should not have a voice and just be a silent figure in the shadows

thank you 12volt for sharing that....

[drugstore cowboy]

Well, it shows the pain that gays experience but I want to know..what its like to see a video showing the pain rights and needs of bisexuals from the GLBT community. It was 3:26 minutes into a 5:20 minute video before the word "bisexual" was used. It was used once to be a mid way point between gay and straight when referrring to discrimination. .....Not one person identified themself as bisexual in this video. Homophobia and being Gay was specifically mentioned but not Biphobia or being bisexual. All and more probably applied to bisexuals . It speaks about bigotry and then it only speaks about being gay. Bi erasure/Biphobic and Bi Invisibility in this video is evident to me. Well said! There's TONS of biphobia and bisexual erasure in the so called LGBT "community" and most of it comes from our so called "allies" or gay men and lesbians.

[Gearbox]

It's at least politically incorrect to be homophobic. Not so for being biphobic. Anti bisexual remarks just roll off the tongue like a sweet kiss.
I reckon we should do a bi version of this vid. Might be a few hours longer to encapsulate the bitching, labels, types of bi, blurring out of (possibly on the down low) faces, and of course some 'sex breaks'.:tongue: But I think it just might work!lol

Jesting aside though, it's a good vid.:)

[elian]

You all can make more of a deal out of it you want but I happen to think that a victory for any minority group can raise consciousness for all people..so let them advocate - and be happy they even USED the word bisexual.

[tenni]

You all can make more of a deal out of it you want but I happen to think that a victory for any minority group can raise consciousness for all people..so let them advocate - and be happy they even USED the word bisexual.

Elain
What I notice or wonder is that people on this site have identified with the GLBT "community" concept and many of us come from an uncertainty about our sexuality. ie. Am I straight or am I gay issue. We have identified with this GLBT "community" concept and fail to identify that our sexuality is being ignored not just by the mainstream but this so called "community". Yes, this is a fairly good emotive video but it is no victory for bisexuals. It is a plus for gays and lesbians but wake up this is a promo video for a political cause for gays. Many ? bisexuals can not get their act together sufficiently to recognize charlatans. We still are uncertain as to our needs. Some seem to believe that the crumbs from the Gay/Lesbian is sufficient.

Yes, it is insufficient to be at least homophobic but lets acknowledge bi erasure. Who here can articulate what bisexuals should say that differs from this G&L video? If we can not, then yes we are invisible. We are not separate but Gays who have just not come out yet.

[darkeyes]

Sometimes tenni I wonder who u see as ur friends, if anyone.. never forget one important factor.. were it not for gays and the movement which which gained for all human beings in our countries the right to be who we are, gay or bisexual, bisexuality would be even more invisible than it is.. the law now allows human beings to love and have sex with whomsoever they please (age and consent permitting) and that right was obtained long before most people even knew or thought that bisexuality may be something different.. we have moved a long way since then.. what u so disdainfully refer too as crumbs are not thrown out by gays and lesbians at all... what u get from gays and lesbians is much more than crumbs.. you get the right to love and fuck whomseover will have u... it is not gays and lesbians who are the instigators of bi erasure or bi invisibility.. but more than anyone else, these things are caused by bisexuals themselves....

I do not accept that bisexuals are merely gay or lesbian people who havent yet come out.. that in itself is an oversimplification.. but I do believe that many are gay and lesbian who have not yet recognised their true sexuality.. many, probably even most are truly bisexual in one form or other. That many gay and lesbian people are hostile to bisexuality is a sad state of affairs but most of us do not accept that hostility is justified or the reasoning behind it. There is also hostility toward gay and lesbian people rom within the bisexual world and to some degree your own words betray just such a hostility. I only wish that those gay and lesbian people and those bisexual people who bear this mutual hostility would realise that we have more in common with each other than divides us and that we would all seriously try and resolve those diferences for as long as they remain and as long as those fro either sexuality grouping bears this hostility the movemnt to true sexual equality for all can only be held back and potentially set into reverse... yes bi erasure exists.. yes bi invisibility is a reality.. but instead of griping about crumbs we throw down for u cut the crap and begin a proper dialogue... begin to think and act for yourselves to eliminate thse wrongs and accept your own responsibility for them..

[elian]

This video is not a "victory" of any sort - it is a statement of opinion. If you want to promote bisexuals then make a video promoting bisexuals, don't complain about somebody else's video not catering to your own point of view.

As a matter of fact this video is trailer that is soliciting input for a documentary, so go register to give your point of view - maybe the video can represent bisexual people more equally then?

Personally I wouldn't promote only a single group - Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual or Transgendered - I would promote all of them, together because it's about who you love - not who you have sex with. I know Fran disagrees. Every homophobic person I can imagine looks at any of those groups as sub-human, they imagine some weak man, butch woman, or whatever other stereotypes they can come up so they think they can isolate and shame us. We're not sub-human; there is one human race - we just love differently.

[Gearbox]

were it not for gays and the movement which which gained for all human beings in our countries the right to be who we are, gay or bisexual, bisexuality would be even more invisible than it is.
Fran sweetheart, are you actually saying, with a straight face, with no tongue firmly in your cheek, that it was all homosexuals doing? That there were no B's or T's or heterosexuals in any way involved in the fight for gay rights?
Surely I've misunderstood there?:tongue:

[dafydd]

Gearbox. I want you. I'm not joking. Let's blow this joint and go to Snowdonia. I can't take it anymore baby!

[elian]

Fran sweetheart, are you actually saying, with a straight face, with no tongue firmly in your cheek, that it was all homosexuals doing? That there were no B's or T's or heterosexuals in any way involved in the fight for gay rights?
Surely I've misunderstood there?:tongue:

I understood what Fran was saying, she said that if gay people hadn't taken a stand then even more people would still be in the closet.. I think that's a fair statement.

By omitting everyone else who ever supported gay rights I don't think she was implying that the efforts of those groups don't make a difference.

[Long Duck Dong]

I was reading the comments under the video and yes there were a few people that were talking about how they felt they were not represented in the video...... then I struck this comment....

Andy HardsCollapse (http://front.moveon.org/the-gay-rights-video-that-will-send-chills-down-your-spine/?rc=fb.rp#)
I represent Ukrainian Amputee Transgendered Train Drivers (incorporating Non-Gender-Specific Train Drivers) and was sickened and disgusted that after 1 minute and 14 seconds NOT ONE UATTD (inc NGSTD) member was shown in this video. I find it disgusting that MoveOn dared to show such a negative and Racist/Amputeeist/Transgerederist/Train Driverist (inc NGSTD-ist) portrayal of society.
I hope you are ashamed of yourselves. I for one will never watch this clip ever again. NEVER, SO THERE! DO YOU HEAR ME?? NEVER!!!



honestly I laughed..... cos it goes to show that no matter what is done, some body will find a issue with it.... and yes I read the comment as tongue in cheek......

[tenni]

If bi erasure in this video can not raised on a bisexual web site where bi erasure happens with posts then where can it be raised? Bisexuals on this site, need to be more aware of such events and not praise what is not for us. Good for gay people. Gay people will always promote injustice to them. That is understandable.

darkeyes I am not hostile or intend to be hostile towards gays. Gay people who promote this video are promoting fighting bigotry against gay people. They are not bisexuals' friends when they support such a video. They are gay supporters.

This video is an example of bi erasure. Do you agree? You write that you are aware of biphobia in some gays but do you see Bi erasure / Bi Invisibility in this video? This is a media arts work that is being promoted.

I do feel some hostility towards bisexuals on this site who do not recognize bi erasure..I shouldn't as they may be just ignorant in its true sense. Those that praise this video as if it is for them may be unaware. I liked the video and could identify with aspects but I'm sensitive enough to biphobia and bi erasure to be watching for it.

I understand that not all bis are going to be political about their sexuality. For some of us, it has been hard enough to figure out our sexuality. We are not hetero. We are not gay. What are we? We know the label. Do we know how we are distinct and unique from the gay people? So many on here promote a wishy washing inclusion as if labels do not count. Well, they do count...Money, recognition etc. is not given to such vagueness.

I have video skills to create a video on bisexuality. My issues are that I do not know what to say. How are we different from gays? Tell me. Don't give me vague statements about all being equal. I do not understand how I am unique and different from a gay person. I know that I and others are but what do bisexuals think that we should say in a video to distinguish ourselves from the Gays? We also love opposite gender people. That's it?


"I want to know how it is like"...finish this statement bisexuals that make us uniquely different from gays.

[Long Duck Dong]

If it can not raised on a bisexual web site where bi erasure happens with posts then where can it be raised? Bisexuals on this site, need to be more aware of such events and not praise what is not for us. Good for gay people. Gay people will always promote injustice to them. That is understandable.

I have video skills to create a video on bisexuality. My issues are that I do not know what to say. How are we different from gays? Tell me. Don't give me vague statements about all being equal. We have heteros, lesbians, intersexed know it alls posting on this site and I do not understand how am I unique and different from a gay person. I know that I and you are but what do you think that we should say in a video to distinguish ourselves from the Gays?

you want a list ?

most lesbians and gays suffer more discrimination than bisexuals, ever seen a law that stops bi's serving in the armed forces and mentions bisexuality specifically ?

lesbians and gays are refused the right to marry, many bisexuals are married....

most lesbians and gays can not hide their sexuality within a relationship, as their relationship is a aspect of who they are.... bisexuals can hide within a relationship....


bisexuals have a wider ranger of options and rights...... including marriage for the most part.... so they do not have to be as visible as the gays and lesbians that are out on the streets and in videos, talking about how they feel as gays and lesbians and fighting for the *crumbs from the table *.... many gays and lesbians have had to out themselves in order to be seen to stand up for the rights of gays and lesbians.... where as much of the fighting for bisexuals, has been with their partners about opening up the marriage / relationship....

by posting that you do not know what to say, basically is saying that you want to complain about the gay / lesbian video not mentioning bisexuals but when it comes to you speaking out about what bisexuals go thru, you actually have fuck all to complain about... cos most of your complaining is about other people and their sexuality or other peoples views on relationships, or other peoples views on how they conduct their lives.....

how are we different to gays and lesbians ? simple, they fight for their rights against a government, a country, a society, a religion... cos they really do not have much of a option..... bisexuals do

[elian]

"I want to know what it's like, to love someone for who they are in the inside"
"I want to know what it's like, to know that love is a blessing, not a curse"

Bisexuality to me is about universal love and desire..I think it is a blessing in a world with so many hurting people. The reality of it can get complicated with some partners figuring it out after they entered monogamous relationships with children and such but loving people is not a curse, period. Lusting after people, well - all adults do that from time to time, don't they?

I have had the strangest dreams lately, men and women coming up to me in dreams, people who I think of as straight who are coming up to me, kissing me, loving me - in one of them I was horrified of being outed or even experiencing that love. You are right LDD, people of different sexualities CAN hide easier than other minorities, especially bisexuals. It's funny how I can sit here and preach so much about love, and still be afraid. This isn't so much "bi-erasure" as coming to terms with myself..truly and honestly.

[tenni]

Bi erasure is is the tendency to ignore, remove, falsify, or reexplain evidence of bisexuality in history, academia, the news media and other primary sources such as film/video etc.

Some of the words from the video.

I want to know what it is like
to be normal
to be accepted
to be equal
to be free
to be open
to be heard
to be loved
to be happy
to be me
to feel that I belong
to feel like I'm strong
who I am isn't wrong
to know that I'm here that I'll make it through the year to know that I won't disappear
to make what is wrong right
to believe in a higher power that doesn't see me as sin or sodomy
to break down the wall to remove homophobia from the law (bisexuality?)
to feel like I'm not a freak
to not feel like I am weak
to not be silent when I speak
to not be considered a disease
to freely express my individuality
to not be the target of bigotry
to not have you question my sanity
to overcome your superiority
to overcome all my fears
to learn about gay leaders from the past in my history class (no bisexual leaders?)
to not have to hide, to not have to lie
to not have my sexuality denied
to not have these hurts inside to not think these thoughts in my mind to contemplate suicide
to have this pain in me subside
to give back the tears
to unite this world
to not stand below
to live in a world without hate
to not discriminate
a world where I can feel safe whether I gay bi or straight
to have equal opportunity
to know full equality (for bisxuals?)
to be treated equally by my peers

[DuckiesDarling]

Bi erasure is is the tendency to ignore, remove, falsify, or reexplain evidence of bisexuality in history, academia, the news media and other primary sources such as film/video etc.

Some of the words from the video.

I want to know what it is like
to be normal
to be accepted
to be equal
to be free
to be open
to be heard
to be loved
to be happy
to be me
to feel that I belong
to feel like I'm strong
who I am isn't wrong
to know that I'm here that I'll make it through the year to know that I won't disappear
to make what is wrong right
to believe in a higher power that doesn't see me as sin or sodomy
to break down the wall to remove homophobia from the law (bisexuality?)
to feel like I'm not a freak
to not feel like I am weak
to not be silent when I speak
to not be considered a disease
to freely express my individuality
to not be the target of bigotry
to not have you question my sanity
to overcome your superiority
to overcome all my fears
to learn about gay leaders from the past in my history class (no bisexual leaders?)
to not have to hide, to not have to lie
to not have my sexuality denied
to not have these hurts inside to not think these thoughts in my mind to contemplate suicide
to have this pain in me subside
to give back the tears
to unite this world
to not stand below
to live in a world without hate
to not discriminate
a world where I can feel safe whether I gay bi or straight
to have equal opportunity
to know full equality (for bisxuals?)
to be treated equally by my peers


Tenni, that doesn't read to me as bierasure at all. After all homophobia is one of the reasons that many bisexual men do not come out and that's been posted on here a lot as reasons for not coming out.

That dramatic poem was a very powerful statement about anyone who is different and I think it was good for all LGBT and not bierasure at all.

[Long Duck Dong]

"I want to know what it's like, to love someone for who they are in the inside"
"I want to know what it's like, to know that love is a blessing, not a curse"

Bisexuality to me is about universal love and desire..I think it is a blessing in a world with so many hurting people. The reality of it can get complicated with some partners figuring it out after they entered monogamous relationships with children and such but loving people is not a curse, period. Lusting after people, well - all adults do that from time to time, don't they?

I have had the strangest dreams lately, men and women coming up to me in dreams, people who I think of as straight who are coming up to me, kissing me, loving me - in one of them I was horrified of being outed or even experiencing that love. You are right LDD, people of different sexualities CAN hide easier than other minorities, especially bisexuals. It's funny how I can sit here and preach so much about love, and still be afraid. This isn't so much "bi-erasure" as coming to terms with myself..truly and honestly.


lol trouble is that I am not trying to imply that bisexuals hide, I was just trying to say that bisexuals are less visible if they are living in a manner that doesn't stand out, and I was including being with gay / les and heterosexual people...... something I have mentioned about in NZ, about how the LGBT community has gone mostly invisible again.... except for the LGBT parades that stick them back in the public eye for a short time..... but apart from that, we are just one of the crowd... and that has resulted in a massive drop of discrimination issues....cos people are not having LGBT rammed in their face regularly .....

[darkeyes]

Gear hun..Elian touched on the truth of it and what Duckie says about how (many) bisexuals live and lived in the days when homosexuality was first legalised has a bearing on why I said what I said. But I am not saying quite what u think I am saying.

The legalisation of homosexuality could not have been done without a liberalising of attitudes within society as a whole.. this meant that there were those among the heterosexual community who were supportive of the right to be. Many of those heterosexual people were themselves not heterosexual but closeted bisexual and many were even closeted gay.. it could never have been achieved without the support of all these people much of which was active and vocal. That there were some openly bisexual people within the movement is unequestioned but the bulk of the pressure came from the homosexual (principally male in many countries because lesbianism was never illegal for instance in the nations which make up the UK and much of its former empire) community itself. It was they who were most active and they most vocal and it is they to whom we owe the bulk of the debt...

However, since legalisation began to spread throughout the west in the 1960s more bisexual people have become open and prominent and this is a welcome and increasing trend and means nothing but good for the progress that the lgbt strives for.and as the campaign for sexual rights took off more people from both the heterosexual and bisexual communities openly involved themselves in support of homosexual rights.. I use the expression homosexual quite deliberately because it is the physical acts involved in homosexuality which are important not the sexuality of those who participate in such acts.

What I said holds good.. in the years leading up to and for some time after legalisation any bisexual exposed as having relationships with his or her own sex was considered by most people of the day to be a homosexual. This actually holds good in the minds of many people even today, even regrettably too many among the gay and lesbian communties who really should know better. Once Pandora's box was opened it was then that people became increasingly aware of bisexuality and bisexuals themselves began to gain confidence and find their voice as a separate entity from we who are gay or lesbian and to become more visible both within the lgbt and the wider world. The task is incomplete as is the task of achieving full equality within our societies for all the sexualities, but as years go roll on and the lgbt continues striving for rights which were once thought impossible but are close to being within our grasp, bisexuals together with gay and lesbian people, and the transgendered, and the huge legion of heterosual people who support oour cause will become more visible and will play an ever increasing role in the struggle for equality.. in time it may well be bisexuals who play the dominant role for I firmly believe that bisexuals are in reality.numerically the largest group within the lgbt... arguably, and this is very contentious.. they are the largest group within all the sexualities even larger than what is now the dominant group in our societies.. the heterosexual community... but until such times as we have true equality, and our societies are mature enough and enlghtened enough about sex and sexuality not to care too much what anyone happens to be that is contention that is unproven...

I did not intend to give the impression that bisexual, heterosexual or transgendered people have played no part in what has been achieved..they did, but in the early days it was fundamentally the homosexual population who deserve most of the credit and as the movement gained strength it was they who made the early running which has brought us to where we are today.. it is still fundamentally true today even although the lgbt has millions of supporters who are heterosexual, bisexual and transgendered many of whom are active in groups around the world. But it is less true as bisexual people and people of other sexualities play an increasingly influential and prominant role in shaping how within each of our societies, sexuality, not simply homosexuality, is viewed. and influencing the direction we take.....

[tenni]

I should not be surprised that the queerest (oddest) internet couple fail to acknowledge bi erasure and defend the continuation of such practices. It angers and saddens me but I should not be surprised. According to them we, bisexuals, are to blame for the bi erasure in this video. Its our fault that the director/writer excluded the words bisexual when speaking about equality. It is bisexuals' fault that the video refers to homophobia but not biphobia. It is bisexuals' fault that the video refers to gays and excludes bisexuals. (other than an in between position between being hetero or gay which in itself may support the concept that bisexuality is merely a stop position before admitting your gayness?). Such support for bi erasure from two very vocal posters saddens me.

[DuckiesDarling]

I should not be surprised that the queerest(odd) internet couple fail to acknowledge bi erasure and defend the continuation of such practices. It angers and saddens me but I should not be surprised. According to them we, bisexuals, are to blame for the bi erasure in this video. Its our fault that the director/writer excluded the words bisexual when speaking about equality. It is bisexuals' fault that the video refers to homophobia but not biphobia. The queerest couple practise and support bi erasure.


Figured I'd better quote it before you go and edit and try to change history, btw I'm not part of internet couple, I'm part of a couple.

Tenni, I am done with your superior attitude. You are not perfect and you are most definitely not the spokesperson for this site. No one is apart from Drew. You don't like what I have to say then ignore me, do not reply to my posts do not reply to my threads and do not comment about me in snarky little side issues. I stated what I felt and what I have learned being here on this site and having gay and bi friends my entire life.

[Long Duck Dong]

I should not be surprised that the queerest(odd) internet couple fail to acknowledge bi erasure and defend the continuation of such practices. It angers and saddens me but I should not be surprised. According to them we, bisexuals, are to blame for the bi erasure in this video. Its our fault that the director/writer excluded the words bisexual when speaking about equality. It is bisexuals' fault that the video refers to homophobia but not biphobia. The queerest couple practise and support bi erasure...

most of the people in the thread are telling you to create a bisexual video version since YOU are not happy that gay people are not talking about being bisexual and dealing with issues as bisexual people....

the bi erasure you are complaining about, is what YOU are seeing in a video by gay people about gay people and the issues that gay people are dealing with and making it into a issue so you can once again, find fault with others......

[darkeyes]

I should not be surprised that the queerest (oddest) internet couple fail to acknowledge bi erasure and defend the continuation of such practices. It angers and saddens me but I should not be surprised. According to them we, bisexuals, are to blame for the bi erasure in this video. Its our fault that the director/writer excluded the words bisexual when speaking about equality. It is bisexuals' fault that the video refers to homophobia but not biphobia. It is bisexuals' fault that the video refers to gays and excludes bisexuals. (other than an in between position between being hetero or gay which in itself may support the concept that bisexuality is merely a stop position before admitting your gayness?). Such support for bi erasure from two very vocal posters saddens me.

Homosexuality as a concept is a part of bisexuality tenni.. without homosexuality there can be no bisexuality nor indeed can there be any without heterosexuality... chill babes... think about your own video because most of what is contained in the one being discussed here is pertinent to any you will turn out... if u cant think of what to do with it how do u expect those who are not bisexual to?

[Brian]

It is a powerful video. But it has one major drawback I think... it is very angry, except at the end it briefly morphs into terrible sadness.

I get angry sometimes at social conservatism, its discrimination, its anti-science, and its injustice toward alternative sexualities. And there is a time and place to express that anger. Anger has its place.

But anger is also very negative. It does not inspire. It does not show a path forward. It has serious limits in solving problems and influencing others. It does not touch the human spirit. It does not build on the inherent good in almost all of us. I am also not sure of poetry as anger, anger as poetry - is poetry the right tool for expressing anger? - is pastel watercolours the best way to capture a car accident scene?

So I am not sure that having GLBT folks of all different ages, races and shapes come together into a video of a steadily more angry rant toward a climax of anger and then switch to a tone of hopeless sadness at the end, is really that useful.

I think the same point made from a positive outlook would be MUCH more useful - a video that inspires and shines a light forward! Moveon.org has the video tagged as "beautiful", "inspiring", "touching" but I am not sure what video they are watching! The OP, 12voltman, had it right, it is "powerful", but it could be so much more.

Just my :2cents:

- Drew :paw:

[Brian]

12Voltman, I took the liberty of embedding the video in your original post. I hope that is okay.

- Drew :paw:

[tenni]

Homosexuality as a concept is a part of bisexuality tenni.. without homosexuality there can be no bisexuality nor indeed can there be any without heterosexuality... chill babes... think about your own video because most of what is contained in the one being discussed here is pertinent to any you will turn out... if u cant think of what to do with it how do u expect those who are not bisexual to?

darkeyes
Yes, same sex activity (not homosexuality) is part of being bisexual. Just the choice of language distinguishes it while to use the word homosexuality emphasis that sexuality. Language is powerful and so the words that bisexuals use to describe and discuss their sexuality are important. Just as a bisexual in a same sex relationship/marriage with a gay/lesbian are not in a gay marriage. Both are in a same sex marriage. That's you babes ;) isn't it? I know that you are not in an official marriage but a civil partnership and that term may be more neutral?

I think that drew has a valid point about the anger but that is ok. Perhaps this video is speaking more to other gay and lesbians? I agree with you that there is much in this video that may apply to bisexuals but it is bi erasure or at best a video for gays & lesbians by gay director/writer. It is emotively powerful. I suspect that the speakers are actors but they may not be.

I have a partial visual for a video. I'm a video artist rather than a narrative documentary (such as this video). I usually use documentary footage with manipulation. My work is more non linear and experimental. I'd have to use a studio with proper lighting and more likely actors and so that is partially out of my experience. That is more expensive and disclosing of my closeted sexuality. I've posted before that the video distributor that represents my work has no bisexual videos. I think that I would be comfortable now to present my distributor with a bisexual video artwork than going about hiring actors to portray my thoughts..lol (strange I know) I 've ask other bisexuals for their thoughts to expand upon my own. Thank you Elain. Are there any more thoughts about what bisexuals want to know what it is like that are specific to bisexuals?

"I want to know what it is like to"....

[darkeyes]

darkeyes
Yes, same sex activity (not homosexuality) is part of being bisexual. Just the choice of language distinguishes it while to use the word homosexuality emphasis that sexuality. Language is powerful and so the words that bisexuals use to describe and discuss their sexuality are important. Just as a bisexual in a same sex relationship/marriage with a gay/lesbian are not in a gay marriage. Both are in a same sex marriage. That's you babes ;) isn't it? I know that you are not in an official marriage but a civil partnership and that term may be more neutral?

I think that drew has a valid point about the anger but that is ok. Perhaps this video is speaking more to other gay and lesbians? I agree with you that there is much in this video that may apply to bisexuals but it is bi erasure or at best a video for gays & lesbians by gay director/writer. It is emotively powerful. I suspect that the speakers are actors but they may not be.

I have a partial visual for a video. I'm a video artist rather than a narrative documentary (such as this video). I usually use documentary footage with manipulation. My work is more non linear and experimental. I'd have to use a studio with proper lighting and more likely actors and so that is partially out of my experience. That is more expensive and disclosing of my closeted sexuality. I've posted before that the video distributor that represents my work has no bisexual videos. I think that I would be comfortable now to present my distributor with a bisexual video artwork than going about hiring actors to portray my thoughts..lol (strange I know) I 've ask other bisexuals for their thoughts to expand upon my own. Thank you Elain. Are there any more thoughts about what bisexuals want to know what it is like that are specific to bisexuals?

"I want to know what it is like to"....

I don't want to split hairs tenni, but sexual activity between two people of the same gender is homosexual activity whatever their sexuality..

.....but do it hun... I think its a great idea... just keep it simple and inventive... dont put too much into it or make it turgid.. and dont try and be too smart... always dangers as I found out while making a film at uni... maybe even a series of them if u have enough material which I am sure there will be...so go on guys an gals.. put ur money wer ur gob is and help the man out...an' gud luck babes..:bigrin:

[darkeyes]

It is a powerful video. But it has one major drawback I think... it is very angry, except at the end it briefly morphs in terrible sadness.


But anger is also very negative. It does not inspire.

- Drew :paw:

Uncontrolled anger maybe Droosy Woosy... when we lose the plot and rant and rave... but displying anger at the right time in a controlled manner, if it is expressing outrage at any injustice can be a very positive aid and awaken people to many things which a calm and collected deliverance will fail to do.. it gets attention.. the trick is not to go overboard and not to carry on with the anger one moment longer than necessary... anger can be negative, but not always... expressing anger can be a very positive thing when we want to alert people to wrongs and get things done...

[elian]

..... something I have mentioned about in NZ, about how the LGBT community has gone mostly invisible again.... except for the LGBT parades that stick them back in the public eye for a short time..... but apart from that, we are just one of the crowd... and that has resulted in a massive drop of discrimination issues....cos people are not having LGBT rammed in their face regularly .....

Well, ultimately that is what I would LOVE to see happen - that the LGBT community has gone invisible - but only because the members of the community have been accepted as equals in the human race.

[Gearbox]

The legalisation of homosexuality could not have been done without a liberalising of attitudes within society as a whole.. this meant that there were those among the heterosexual community who were supportive of the right to be. Many of those heterosexual people were themselves not heterosexual but closeted bisexual and many were even closeted gay.. it could never have been achieved without the support of all these people much of which was active and vocal. That there were some openly bisexual people within the movement is unequestioned but the bulk of the pressure came from the homosexual (principally male in many countries because lesbianism was never illegal for instance in the nations which make up the UK and much of its former empire) community itself. It was they who were most active and they most vocal and it is they to whom we owe the bulk of the debt...
"To those we owe the smallest of debt, be silent when from up high we roar!".:three:

Doesn't that just sum it all up in regards to a bi questioning the equality nature of a LGBT vid? Just look at the crap you get if your guilty of that, even on a bisexual site in 2012. Suddenly your put in your place and told to be silent and grateful. Then the denouncing starts, from LDD of course, but that's hardly a surprise from the biggest advocate of anti-bi propaganda on the site.lol

You do have a very good point that bi's need to be more visible and OUT, if we are to make any progress with our overall views on sexuality itself. If we ALL just came out, we'd make it much easier for those 'heterosexuals' and 'homosexuals' to just be 'sexuals' or whatever. Just one society of people that needn't have the slightest concerns with who they are attracted to. Sex would be JUST sex, not homosexual sex, or heterosexual sex, but just sex. Same with love too. That's how many bi's see it, but not how we are told to see it.

The day when a man puts his dickydooda up another man's chuff, and a woman puts her mouth on another woman's foof, and it's simply called 'SEX', will be the day when equality within the sexual spectrum has been reached.
On that day there'll be lovers, not gay or straight or bi or etc etc ones, just lovers.
It's a lovely thought, but at the mo it's way way way off in the distance in some kind of fantasy land, I know.;)
That's due to both heterosexuals and homosexuals claiming natural acts of sex and emotions to be one or the other.
I KNOW it sounds absurd, but if the homosexual population (as we know it now) quit demanding rights as 'hapless homosexuals' and started demanding them as Humans, we'd probably see a vastly more positive influence on the rest of society. That maybe easier for bi's to express, and all the more reason for bi's to come out or make those vids.
I'd take part, if only I could keep my cloths on long enough.:tongue:

[darkeyes]

I may come back to you Gear on what u say.. but be clear on this.. I may be a lesbian but my sexuality is and always has been secondary to my humanity... everything I say and do is with the intention of bringing all human beings closer together and as one.. it is about attaining the goal of equality for all.. dont underestimate the ability or the numbers of heterosexuals who broadly agree with what u say or of the number of homosexuals.. I can quibble a little about parts of your post and may yet, but not in what is important.. we are human beings.. that is what matters.. who we love and/or who we fuck is a part of that but not the whole thing.. however important our sexuality, there are far more important things in this world than that, and who we love and who we fuck really should be no one's concern but our own as long as no one is harmed in the process...

[tenni]

I may come back to you Gear on what u say.. but be clear on this.. I may be a lesbian but my sexuality is and always has been secondary to my humanity... everything I say and do is with the intention of bringing all human beings closer together and as one.. it is about attaining the goal of equality for all.. dont underestimate the ability or the numbers of heterosexuals who broadly agree with what u say or of the number of homosexuals.. I can quibble a little about parts of your post and may yet, but not in what is important.. we are human beings.. that is what matters.. who we love and/or who we fuck is a part of that but not the whole thing.. however important our sexuality, there are far more important things in this world than that, and who we love and who we fuck really should be no one's concern but our own as long as no one is harmed in the process...

I basically agree with you darkeyes and Gear. Where I may differ is the concept of harm that darkeyes refers to but not Gear. I agree that making love should not harm another person or two. If we were more like the Bonobo bisexual philosophy by eliminated all or some of the possessive trappings of monogamy (oh fek that again..;) ); loved as humans with a giving rationale, the world would be a better place. If you wish to love or have sex with only one person that is fine but do not expect it of others regardless of their gender. That will be as large or a larger hill to climb as accepting that loving is not gender based.

[darkeyes]

I basically agree with you darkeyes and Gear. Where I may differ is the concept of harm that darkeyes refers to but not Gear. I agree that making love should not harm another person or two. If we were more like the Bonobo bisexual philosophy by eliminated all or some of the possessive trappings of monogamy (oh fek that again..;) ); loved as humans with a giving rationale, the world would be a better place. If you wish to love or have sex with only one person that is fine but do not expect it of others regardless of their gender. That will be as large or a larger hill to climb as accepting that loving is not gender based.
My post was not concerned with monogamy tenni, rather with consensual sex and with harm often done to the young... harm done to people because of a monogamous arrangement is something we have covered time and again an will again no doubt but that was not in my mind when I posted.

[Long Duck Dong]

"To those we owe the smallest of debt, be silent when from up high we roar!".:three:

Doesn't that just sum it all up in regards to a bi questioning the equality nature of a LGBT vid? Just look at the crap you get if your guilty of that, even on a bisexual site in 2012. Suddenly your put in your place and told to be silent and grateful. Then the denouncing starts, from LDD of course, but that's hardly a surprise from the biggest advocate of anti-bi propaganda on the site.lol

You do have a very good point that bi's need to be more visible and OUT, if we are to make any progress with our overall views on sexuality itself. If we ALL just came out, we'd make it much easier for those 'heterosexuals' and 'homosexuals' to just be 'sexuals' or whatever. Just one society of people that needn't have the slightest concerns with who they are attracted to. Sex would be JUST sex, not homosexual sex, or heterosexual sex, but just sex. Same with love too. That's how many bi's see it, but not how we are told to see it.

The day when a man puts his dickydooda up another man's chuff, and a woman puts her mouth on another woman's foof, and it's simply called 'SEX', will be the day when equality within the sexual spectrum has been reached.
On that day there'll be lovers, not gay or straight or bi or etc etc ones, just lovers.
It's a lovely thought, but at the mo it's way way way off in the distance in some kind of fantasy land, I know.;)
That's due to both heterosexuals and homosexuals claiming natural acts of sex and emotions to be one or the other.
I KNOW it sounds absurd, but if the homosexual population (as we know it now) quit demanding rights as 'hapless homosexuals' and started demanding them as Humans, we'd probably see a vastly more positive influence on the rest of society. That maybe easier for bi's to express, and all the more reason for bi's to come out or make those vids.
I'd take part, if only I could keep my cloths on long enough.:tongue:


can not help reading the part where you talk about the homosexual population quit demanding rights as hapless homosexuals and start demanding rights as humans....... lol its what we did in NZ, and won, its something I have posted about in the site numerous times and how it works, and got told that I was wrong and that it was ignoring LGBT rights etc and ignoring LGBT people.......

simple truth is that its equality for all and it works.....

as for the biggest advocate of anti bi propoganda....??? snorts......

from post 4
have emailed this video link to a number of groups... it is one of the most powerful pro LGBT videos I have ever seen... and a lot of what they say, can apply to more than just the LGBT......it can apply to anybody that feels like they do not belong, they are a freak, they should not have a voice and just be a silent figure in the shadows

thank you 12volt for sharing that....


I shared it with other groups and forums...... how many have you and tenni shared it with ???

[elian]

I also agree with Drew as well, I cringed when I sent the link to a friend and he said he forwarded it to his evangelical brother. I would've rather sent the brother a copy of "For the Bible Tells Me So" .. it has a more even-handed way of presenting the topic of gay and lesbian (yes, ONLY <sighs>) issues.

Of course, anger is sometimes justified and it may just get the point across for some people.

[Gearbox]

I shared it with other groups and forums...... how many have you and tenni shared it with ???
I take it that sent it to gay groups, and not bisexual ones, as we really don't get discriminated against do we?:rolleyes:

Really LDD, the years you have spent on a bisexual site, the experience you claim to have of counselling, the insight you have as a bisexual, and it hasn't sunk in that to suffer differently is not to suffer less? And whatever rights homosexuals don't get, neither do we?
Some homosexuals do have a grudge against bi's due to us having the option to APPEAR to live 'normal' lives etc. As you should really know, appearance is often deceptive and that it's a shallow reason. We don't have a special pass to for same gender rights either.

I think what you said happened in NZ was a big step forward for ALL of us, and that LGBT could use a bit of Human element these days. Homosexuals are not all the same, nor bi's, or trans etc etc but we're all Human and that should be what unites us above all. Not who suffers the most, or needs equality the most, or cant help being what they are the most, or deserves pity the most etc etc.
We don't need pity, we need inclusion for simply being. That's what that vid sadly lacks. I'd have stuck a bunch of hetero's in there myself, just to point that out. Imagine that! JUST hetero's demanding that as a society we be noted for what we are and what it really is. That maybe even more powerful.:)

[tenni]

Why would a bisexual who is aware of bi erasure in this video share this video with anyone other than to educate GLBT organizations about bi erasure /bi invisibiliy? The video speaks specifically about gays and not other sexual minorities or humans in general. It doesn't promote the concept that Gear presented due to this bi erasure/ bi invisibility in the video. If LDD wishes to support and encourage Gays & GLBT organization's to practice Bi Erasure that is his decision. It may demonstrate his lack of understanding about Bi Invisibility actions. If he can not comprehend or denies such bi erasure, maybe his country achieved treating all sexualities as human and equal without him.

[Long Duck Dong]

actually I sent it to mental health groups, lgbt groups, counselling forums, suicide support groups etc...... cos within the vid is a message that as I have said, many if not all of us, have spoken at one time or another, regardless of sexuality...... cos I have heard the same things said in the video, said by so many people from all walks of life, all cultures, races etc etc etc......

the years I have spent on many sexuality forms, doing counselling and therapy, the insight I have as a person with a bisexual / asexual natured / intersex nature and that has a mental illness, that is a ex crim, ex military etc... has taught me that suffering is a aspect of life, and that I can either suffer or make others suffer by my choices and actions....... and I can justify any of my actions and thoughts when it comes to making others suffer.... but so can any of us......

as for rights..... the gay community has been denied many rights over the years that also have affected many bisexual people... but with many bisexual people having a option and choice, the denial of rights have not affected the bisexual community as harshly as the homosexual community.... so yes I can understand that some gay people have issues with some bisexual people... but attitude is everything..... hence we have a lot of gay bashing in this site, but denials of the fact that its homophobic behievour, but if the gay community dare do anything without making it all about bisexuals too, its immediately biphobia, bierasure etc etc....... if we want equal treatment then we should treat people equally and be equally responsible for the way we act towards others.......

yes we need inclusion for simply being..... and remove any reference to sexuality and that vid would apply to dammed near anybody and everybody equally..... but then somebody would complain cos they feel that its not including them in the vid and so its still wrong.......

[dafydd]

i love u all for not agreeing and insisting on debate.
this is my kind of town.

me myself, i dont know where i stand anymore. i used to be all up for the actvist thing, but no one can quite imagine how hellish it is to have a bunch of religious fanatics stalking and hounding me around the net.
does anybody ANYBODY know anything about javasacript, php... or how to stop these crazy hating hackers...?
fear this site isn't safe either. Drew be warned, i hope you've got titanium thick walls around us here.
d

[dafydd]

[QUOTE=Gearbox;224394 The day when a man puts his dickydooda up another man's chuff, and a woman puts her mouth on another woman's foof, and it's simply called 'SEX', will be the day when equality within the sexual spectrum has been reached.
On that day there'll be lovers, not gay or straight or bi or etc etc ones, just lovers.
[/QUOTE]

lol omg G......hehehe lol

[Gearbox]

hence we have a lot of gay bashing in this site
Where exactly is the gay bashing. Can you quote it for me please?


but if the gay community dare do anything without making it all about bisexuals too, its immediately biphobia, bierasure etc etc..
If it's a 'GAY' vid and not a LGBT vid then that's fair enough that they don't include others. Complaining that it's not a LGBT vid is not homophobic in any way you might twist it though.


as for rights..... the gay community has been denied many rights over the years that also have affected many bisexual people... but with many bisexual people having a option and choice, the denial of rights have not affected the bisexual community as harshly as the homosexual community.... so yes I can understand that some gay people have issues with some bisexual people...
'The gay community' hasn't been denied ANY right that bisexuals haven't been denied! Bi's like the opposite gender too, but if that inspires issues with some gays then it's sad that they'd think like that. No bi would spite a gay of the same options, which many do take.

I do hope that you don't present yourself as a councillor/therapist just because you chat on forums?

[Long Duck Dong]

did you actually read the caption above the video, gearbox ?The Gay Rights Video That Will Send Chills Down Your Spine
gay rights....... yet you are saying " if its a gay vid ".... well yes its a gay vid......

yes I referred to it as a LGBT video, but hey, you have to include bisexuals in everything or its bi erasure so I refrained from calling it a gay video.....

now to accuse the gay community of being WRONG for creating a video about gay rights and how they are affected as gay people.... is nothing really short of...... on thats right... there is no homophobic or gay bashing behievour by bisexuals, even when its devaluing and demeaning the gay community,.... but if they so much as turn us down for a date, its immediately bi phobia.......

and then there are complains about how the gay community can not stand us..... honestly, its cos some of us give them a dammed good reason not to like us......

[tenni]

"If it's a 'GAY' vid and not a LGBT vid then that's fair enough that they don't include others. Complaining that it's not a LGBT vid is not homophobic in any way you might twist it though."

No this video is not about being gay or lesbian at all. That would be appropriate to tell the position of a gay man or lesbian woman's life.

The title of the video tells us that the video is more than just about being gay. The title indicates that it is about "gay rights". I've seen quite a few art videos about gay & lesbian lifestyles as well as having curated the first screening of GLBT videos in a city during their Pride week. There is frequently a message in G&L videos but not specifically about "gay rights". Issues about being gay or lesbian are communicated but not presented as a "right" for G&L. This video is about gay rights. In this day and age with at least two major studies coming out with Bi Invisibility, it is rather inappropriate to be protesting about being disenfranchised and as if only G&L are disenfranchised. It is insensitive to bisexuals and completely ignores them ...but not quite. It supports the premise that bisexuality is somewhere between hetero and gay..not its own sexuality though that is equal to poor oppressed gay people. By using bi erasure in this video it supports further discrimination of bisexuals.

[12voltman59]

I didn't say it was a perfect, all encompassing film and surely was not perfect----but I still think it has some value. I would say to anyone who thinks that there should be such a film dealing with only bisexuals----its pretty easy to make your own films these days with a rather inexpensive but decent handheld HD digicam, edit it with software from Microsoft, Apple or other sources--there are some decent freebie video software programs you can download from the 'net.

I have started an association with some organizations in my area for video and film production----I do intend on making some films and vids on a variety of subjects before long---I might even make one relating to bisexuality---but then again--I don't really know what to say about the subject---all I could do is to do something that relates my experience on the subject--and for me that would be good and for some segment of any audience I might reach---but many would probably also be critical since I didn't cover enough bases or aspects of bisexuality.

It sure as heck seems that its a damn hard thing to make everyone "happy!"

Thanks Drew for embedding the video here--I am glad ya did!!

[tenni]

Voltie
You did a good thing by bringing this video forward. It is powerful and emotive.

It is also important that we as bisexuals grow to become aware of bi erasure and biphobia. For many of us, we have struggled as to whether we are hetero or gay. Some are inclined to use the language of gay people to describe ourselves rather than find our own language. It is also important that we clarify just who we are as bisexuals. We both find it difficult to distinguish what we would say to complete the sentence that is the continuing thread of the video that is not synonomous with G&L. "I want to know what it is like". That in itself illustrates the need for emergent bisexual philosophy and politics while on the road to create the Human aspect of sexuality. We are far from that place.

[elian]

Well tenni, I gave you the best two lines I could think of on the spur of the moment. If I REALLY thought about it I might be able to come up with better ones. The ones I came up with immediately just don't have that forceful eloquence:

"I want to know what it's like to screw anybody"
"I want to know what it's like to not have to cheat on my wife"
"I want to know what it's like to have my children be happy that daddy loves girls AND boys"

..I think you are right, there are definitely some issues that are unique to bisexual people and a 3 minute video isn't going to solve those.. If I think about it, most other sexualities can have these same issues though. Is it more about the person and the situation (circumstances) than about the sexuality?

I choose to frame the debate in terms of love because love is something that most people can understand.

<walks a tightrope>

[Gearbox]

did you actually read the caption above the video, gearbox ?The Gay Rights Video That Will Send Chills Down Your Spine


gay rights....... yet you are saying " if its a gay vid ".... well yes its a gay vid......

yes I referred to it as a LGBT video, but hey, you have to include bisexuals in everything or its bi erasure so I refrained from calling it a gay video.....

now to accuse the gay community of being WRONG for creating a video about gay rights and how they are affected as gay people.... is nothing really short of...... on thats right... there is no homophobic or gay bashing behievour by bisexuals, even when its devaluing and demeaning the gay community,.... but if they so much as turn us down for a date, its immediately bi phobia.......

and then there are complains about how the gay community can not stand us..... honestly, its cos some of us give them a dammed good reason not to like us......
So having not found anything to quote that's remotely anything like 'Gay Bashing' on this site as you claimed there was, you decide to redefine what it is instead!
Apparently it is 'gay bashing', demeaning to gays, and homophobic if a bi wants to be included in a gay vid, or mention that some gays will not date a bi because he/she is bi.

This is what I'm talking about your anti-bi propaganda on this site. You continuously hide behind homosexuals that have issues with bisexuals when it is you who have the issues!
It is people like you, not bisexuals, who are out to cause non acceptance of bisexuality amongst other sexualities, and you will blatantly lie, attempt to cover up that lie and claim to be a victim when confronted. And you have the nerve to criticise cheating bi's of the same thing!lol


and then there are complains about how the gay community can not stand us..... honestly, its cos some of us give them a dammed good reason not to like us......
Trolling with crap like that is you usual and regular motif. It flames ALL bisexuals who never even claimed that at all. But you insist on throwing it in there, just to put bisexuals down a peg. The gay community has claimed nothing of the sort either! You can't judge a whole community by just a few.
You should really (IMO) deal with your own issues.

[tenni]

Ah, thank you Elian!!!! (post #48) They are very good. In post #37, you mention "For the Bible Tells me So". Is that text or a video?


Anyone else have a response to "I want to know what it is like to..." from specifically a bisexual perspective?



I agree with Gear. LDD's posts are frequently derogatory towards bisexuals. As CSkate stated to LDD in an earlier thread he posts very contrary to thread topics or support an opposing view (underdog) in a troll like manner. darkeyes ask him to think about what he posts more carefully before posting. Making a statement that slurs all bisexuals and then denying/lying? or "moving the goal post" to attempt a rationalization is not helpful. It is counterproductive for bisexuals imo. As Cskate asked him if he doesn't like/accept bisexuals why does he stay here? This is who we are in all our variations.

[elian]

Ah, thank you Elian!!!! They are very good. In post #37, you mention "For the Bible Tells me So". Is that text or a video?


You can google for it, it is a documentary film that describes a few religious parents' struggle to come to terms positively with their children being gay/lesbian.


http://youtu.be/HpJAucyX7RE

I fear you would not like it since they only mention bisexuals one time in the entire movie (in the cartoon sequence) and it's not a flattering reference.

Still I thought it was well done. It wasn't too many years ago that such documentaries never showed to a wide audience.

[sexual26]

I thought the video offered good inspiration to anyone who feels like they are different and must hide who they are. Inspiration to just be themselves.

[Long Duck Dong]

So having not found anything to quote that's remotely anything like 'Gay Bashing' on this site as you claimed there was, you decide to redefine what it is instead!
Apparently it is 'gay bashing', demeaning to gays, and homophobic if a bi wants to be included in a gay vid, or mention that some gays will not date a bi because he/she is bi.

This is what I'm talking about your anti-bi propaganda on this site. You continuously hide behind homosexuals that have issues with bisexuals when it is you who have the issues!
It is people like you, not bisexuals, who are out to cause non acceptance of bisexuality amongst other sexualities, and you will blatantly lie, attempt to cover up that lie and claim to be a victim when confronted. And you have the nerve to criticise cheating bi's of the same thing!lol

.
Trolling with crap like that is you usual and regular motif. It flames ALL bisexuals who never even claimed that at all. But you insist on throwing it in there, just to put bisexuals down a peg. The gay community has claimed nothing of the sort either! You can't judge a whole community by just a few.
You should really (IMO) deal with your own issues.

no, I never quoted anything in here..... thats something else that would be bitched about, taking the thread off topic......apparently something that only I do

no its not gay bashing to want to include bisexual issues in a video about gay rights...... thats a expression of a opinion, gay bashing, homophobia and demeaning to gays is when they are put down constantly and rubbished for their expression of opinion and choice, by others.... the same way that biphobia is applied to others for not dating bisexuals..... its a expression of choice and apparently, wrong.....

hide behind homosexuals ? one person.....

it is people like me ? ok.... and when people in the site tell me that I am not even a bisexual because even tho I have had sexual relations with males and females that I am not bisexual...... thats not bi erasure or biphobia cos its only a bisexual that is being told he is not bisexual......?

I never lied, you and others accuse me of lying..... as I have said, truth and fact do not matter when there is a target......

now I am done with the thread, its just turning into more ongoing personal attacks like my partner and I have had to endure over the last few years from tenni...... and I am tired of referring NZ lgbt people to this site and have them question my judgement when they read threads like this...

good on the gay community, they made a powerful video, and I will continue to share it cos it has a powerful message...... but that is what supporting the LGBT is all about in the fight for equal treatment.....and that is what changes laws and lives.....

[drugstore cowboy]

Fran sweetheart, are you actually saying, with a straight face, with no tongue firmly in your cheek, that it was all homosexuals doing? That there were no B's or T's or heterosexuals in any way involved in the fight for gay rights? Well said Gearbox. No you're not mistaken. ;)
were it not for gays and the movement which which gained for all human beings in our countries the right to be who we are, gay or bisexual, bisexuality would be even more invisible than it is. Actually what history you're rewriting and calling and claiming as "gay" liberation is really LGBT liberation and it was started by bisexuals and it would have happened even if gay men and lesbians were not involved and stayed closeted like many still do. A bisexual transwoman started the stonewall riots, a bisexual woman started LGBT pride parades and events that are held annually worldwide, a bisexual man opened up a lot of bars and sex clubs in NYC that catered towards bisexual and gay men and did so for decades and the ones that are open still to this day do, a bisexual man came out about how being LGBT in the military and out about your sexuality earned you a discharge and military prison sentence long before anyone gay or lesbian did, and even before all of those watershed events in the history of LGBT rights a bisexual man started the Matachine society or an early LGBT rights group. Oscar Wilde was bisexual, not gay/homosexual even if people who practice bisexual erasure want to claim him as being "gay" since they're biphobic and monosexist. Even Sappho was bisexual and not Lesbian despite how some Lesbian women want to claim her as being lesbian. Bisexuality was very well known about and known as a sexual orientation for a very long time before modern day LGBT liberation and the fight for LGBT equality and it was this way ever since ancient Greece and Ancient Rome. It was no secret that many ancient Greek and Roman leaders, senators, playwrights, and philosophers were bisexual men and women and that's just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to bisexuality and the history of humanity. I wonder when the homosexist members of the LGBT movement will finally acknowledge that bisexuals and bisexuality exist, that our sexuality is as legitimate as theirs, and that the civil and human rights gains that have been made for LGBT people would not have been made without the involvement, commitment, hard work and sacrifice of bisexuals. Then again what else can we expect from a lot of Gay and Lesbian Inc. including yourself? Even with LGBT liberation most gay men and lesbians both in countries where it's completely fine and OK to be LGBT and you can even legally marry someone of the same gender they are not out about their sexuality, are closeted, and many are even married or have been married to people of the opposite gender. Also gay men and lesbians worldwide as a whole are mostly closeted and married to the opposite gender or have been married in the past.

[IanBorthwick]

It's at least politically incorrect to be homophobic. Not so for being biphobic. Anti bisexual remarks just roll off the tongue like a sweet kiss.
I reckon we should do a bi version of this vid. Might be a few hours longer to encapsulate the bitching, labels, types of bi, blurring out of (possibly on the down low) faces, and of course some 'sex breaks'.:tongue: But I think it just might work!lol

Jesting aside though, it's a good vid.:)

After Dan Savage started the "It Gets Better" and left us out, several videos were made, and done by an acting troupe that made a Web Series called ,"By Any Other Name...." They made the flip side of this kind of thing FOR us, and Savage shot it down from being included though he needed to pay nothing.


http://youtu.be/nneRVsAzu6E

So the Producer/Director created a video I cannot find at present, that ends with him telling Savage off because of his erasure and non-inclusion, the video ends with a FUCK YOU to him and his attitudes.

This prompted Adrienne WIlliams of Bisocialnetwork to create her own campaign, and for those of you wondering where I disappear to, it's to HER page a lot and I contribute now and again to her site in more than just comments. She created the "I Am Visible" Campaign, and for it was invited to the White House. Now, all this is not a response due to IMAGINED sleights. These are real responses to real jerks, pushing a real agenda.


http://youtu.be/1GbCmXEn9F8

You can ignore it, you can turn away from it, but you can't make it less real by pretending.

[Brian]

...So the Producer/Director created a video I cannot find at present, that ends with him telling Savage off because of his erasure and non-inclusion, the video ends with a FUCK YOU to him and his attitudes.

I think this is the vid you are referring to - see below. I hadn't seen it before so thanks for mentioning it. I stumbled on it from watching the other two vids you included.


http://youtu.be/aY39HHzxu58

ps. I am going to take the liberty of converting your video links into embedded vids - your post too elian.

- Drew :paw:

[darkeyes]

I wonder when the homosexist members of the LGBT movement will finally acknowledge that bisexuals and bisexuality exist, that our sexuality is as legitimate as theirs, and that the civil and human rights gains that have been made for LGBT people would not have been made without the involvement, commitment, hard work and sacrifice of bisexuals. Then again what else can we expect from a lot of Gay and Lesbian Inc. including yourself?
We see things through different specs, Dave...you hold ur view if it suits u... but I and many gay and lesbian people admit u exist and that bisexuality is a reality.. so enjoy ur rant..that we differ in our view of the past the end it doesn't really matter.. it is who will do what in future and who is doing what now... the present and future is what matters, and what we should be debating...

[IanBorthwick]

Thanks Drew.