brave soul

[wanderingrichard]

finally someone stood up against the don't ask don't tell, discharge you if you admit it, policy of the US military.. surprise: he's a recent west point graduate who says the policy actually hurts the military..

read more here:

http://www.military.com/NewsContent/0,13319,109279,00.html?ESRC=dod-bz.nl

[arana]

Yes, he is a brave man indeed. I'm so glad his instructors were open minded enough in grading his work. I really hope that it doesn't come back to haunt him in his future. At least it's a step in the right direction. Maybe now more will show their support for gays in the military. Maybe....

[Lorcan]

is there something to click on to read his paper? i want to read his paper. i can't find the link.

[Mrs.F]

is there something to click on to read his paper? i want to read his paper. i can't find the link.

The link is in wanderingrichards post.....click on that and it will take you right to the paper.

[ScifiBiJen]

The link is in wanderingrichards post.....click on that and it will take you right to the paper.

Well no... the link leads to an article ABOUT the paper. The actual essay itself.. I'm not sure if it's online somewhere. I'd google the guy's name.. he might have made a website for it or something.

Please report back if anyone finds it and I'll do the same.

[Lorcan]

The link is in wanderingrichards post.....click on that and it will take you right to the paper.

well i guess you will have to expain to me like i'm a 6 year old, but... when i click on that link it takes me to an article about the boy who wrote the paper... the senior thesis. I want to read the thesis. I don't see any way to read it.

[ScifiBiJen]

Ask and you shall receive, Lorcan

The actual thesis paper (not another article) (http://www.nwfdailynews.com/articleArchive/aug2006/images/dontask.pdf)

It's a decently sized pdf file, so be warned.

Thanks for playing this round of "Can I Find This on the Internet". I win! :bigrin:

[Lorcan]

Ask and you shall receive, Lorcan

The actual thesis paper (not another article) (http://www.nwfdailynews.com/articleArchive/aug2006/images/dontask.pdf)

It's a decently sized pdf file, so be warned.

Thanks for playing this round of "Can I Find This on the Internet". I win! :bigrin:

Thank you thank you thank you ScifiBiJen!
(You would think they would have a link on Military.com)

[wanderingrichard]

thank you Jen.. i see your skills are far better than mine when it comes to digging up stuff that was technically militarily classified :bigrin: after reading Lorcans plea , i too went looking and, well, :eek: i wasnt able to reach anything even close to what you've gotten.. :upside:

[jedinudist]

That's a touchy subject in the military in general - can't imagine how well that went over at the point.

Any one hear what happened to this cadet? Pass, fail, reprimand?

[canuckotter]

Any one hear what happened to this cadet? Pass, fail, reprimand?
Won awards, is now a second lieutenant. :)

[12voltman59]

Great thread richard---I have not yet read the full paper--I will when I have some time to -- I look forward to reading it--

I had said in a previous thread a few months ago that if the leadership of the United States military made the decision that homosexuality was to be accpetable in the military-it would become accepted in the military.

I think it was far more problematic to for the military to accept blacks and other minorities as full and equal members of the military--even though it took some time--the acceptance came and it also helped to spread the acceptance of African-Americans in the broader society. There was over 300 years of history working against such acceptance and considering that--it really did not take all that long for that acceptance to take hold and Lordy, the acceptance of females in most military roles took place in almost a flash ---

The thing is in the military--if the Commander in Chief issues an edict--the brass salutes and says "Sir--yes---Sir" and then the command goes out to the rank and file---"you too will accept this fact"-this is the way it is in the military whatever the subject....

It is total bullshit to say that having gays in the ranks would somehow hurt morale--if the leadership of the military says this: GAYS, LESBIANS BISEXUALS and others are accepted and valued members of the military --then they would be--and if you don't like that--then you can get your ass out of the service at the first opportunity...

Just as with heteros--and anyone in the military--if your actions negatively impact unit readiness, cohesion and other things-shit you are in trouble regardless of what the source of the problem is from--substance abuse, excessive indebtedness or whatever---you have to face the consequences---standards are strict and clear regarding fraternization between male and female members--those types of restrictions would apply to male-to-male or female-to-female relationships as well---

With the way many of those in the younger generations are in regards to accepting homosexuality these days--the age group that comprises most of those in the service--it will be no problem to assimilate GLBT people into the ranks--they are already there--look at all of us who are vets who are here on this site.

The only reason that GLBT people have not been openly accepted and intergrated into the military as yet is political not social --it is because we have a civilian leadership that plays to their politcal base that has as a fundamental part of their political and social agenda to be anti-gay--they would not want the military to become accepting of GLBT people because if that happened--- they could not make hay by being homophobic---their gig would be up---

If the milltary came to accept, embrace and integrate GLBT folks fully into the ranks successfully and it would be a smashing success in the blink of an eye---it would mean society would come to accept "homosexuality" and those on the right who play the gay card simply cannot accept that...

[wanderingrichard]

jedi, yeah what otter said....

[wanderingrichard]

you also have to remember , voltie, that it wasn't until the men's dept of the navy started recognizing faiths other than christian and jewish that the army and air farce did also.. i think, at last count, the active army component recognizes something along the lines of 23 different religions... which is 21 more than when i entered into the army in '76 and that hadnt changed since well, the civil war at least.[ sorry, dentist has me on vicodin and it's got me loopy, along with being dog tired after 5 very warm, 14 hour days in a row, so i may ramble a bit]

look, as old vets, we all kno that the BLG side of life was represented there when we served. it was just very very quietly hidden, or rabidly expunged , depending on circumstances. they actually concentrated more on getting rid of the dopers, spouse beaters and drunks than the people who were of different orientation, simply, i think, because there was more of them.

yeah you have a point about now being the time to do it for acceptance cause truth to tell, every day i drive onto the mostly deserted fort lewis, i see at least 3-4 rainbow flags in the back windows of the imports the kids seem to favor here. talk about flying in the face of the don't ask rule that mr. clinton put into effect!!.

also, dealing daily with the older members of unit chains of command, i can tell you from personal experience that from colonels on down, there seems to be less intolerance in the real world units than when i got out in '92. dealing with the army and marine corps in haiti, bosnia, japan and here, i've actually seen more acts of open affection between the soldiers than i'd have ever dreamed of seeing when i was wearing the green suit.

anyway, the " 'pointer" who wrote that thesis, is now doing his early platoon time and while he'll probably get razzed about the subject matter by his contemporaries, he pretty much lived up to the standards that the academy set for honesty and integrity, so they can't really do anything to him for saying the emporer has no clothes.. hell, if i were running my old security company in san antonio again, or doing the hiring/recruiting for any major corporation, this is the kind of guy i'd pick up before anyone else got a chance to. [ btw, academy thesi are typically classified for at least 1-2 years depending on the subject matter. some are never declassed because they are so sensitive in nature. the main reason this is done is to protect the privacy of graduate records and intellectual property until the new in the service officer can stand up and defend themselves openly]

so, a little off topic, but, we could write gigs of zeroes and ones on this subject alone.. fact is we do it anyway on a daily basis here, and i think we as a group are better for it..

nytol, will catch you when i catch you.
Rich