Should I have said something?

[stressed4life]

So here's my rant...

I'm in my first relationship with a girl. We've been in a long distance relationship for almost a year, seeing each other several times a month, or as much as we can. She's moving here in the next few weeks. I live in a very rural small town, where most of the people prefer gay/bisexual people do not exist.

So the other day we're at a park. Had a nice picnic. Enjoying each others company and the conversation. Things a "normal" couple would do. So I lay back on the bench to look at the clouds. She leans over and gives me a kiss. Nothing wrong with that, right? Apparently wrong.

A local cop pulls up and walks up to us. He says he was driving by and seen us, and that we were in a family park and if we wanted to have sex we should take it home. I was beyond offend. I didn't know what to say. Obviously I wanted to be a bitch and tell him we are a family, but I chose not to press my luck. We both just looked at him like he was stupid and he finally left.

Since when is a kiss considered sex? There wasn't any inappropriate touching. My own daughter was there with us playing at the park. I could possibly understand if someone had called in and complained, but he just drove by and decided to stop. Isn't that crossing the line just a little bit? If we were a "normal" couple I'm sure he wouldn't have had a problem with it, but because we're girls it's just wrong. I don't understand why people feel the need to put their disapproval in when it isn't needed. I feel like my rights were violated. Maybe I'm wrong.

I know I need to learn to let go of the comments and looks we get from people, and for the most part I'm fine with it. It's just something about him being a cop that pissed me off. Just because he has a badge he thinks he has the right to tell me when I can kiss my girlfriend. Any suggestions on how to deal with the situation if it happens again?

[12voltman59]

Like it or not and right or wrong or not--being disagreeable with a cop is not a wise thing to do----they can write you up for anything they want to basically and prosecutors, judges and juries tend to believe the cop when it comes down to the word of the cop against the word of the person who was charged with a "crime"---sorry to say that is the case---even if you get off the charge--you might still spend some time in jail--have to pay a bond, court costs, lose time from work and have to explain that you were arrested-----all in all--a major damn hassle even if ya beat the charges or they get dismissed----

You could also lose and have to spend some time in jail or get put on probation---and that can lead to all sorts of problems on down the road--I have seen it happen all too often.

Most likely--the original minor thing that started your "problem" with the cop would be forgotten--it would be that you were giving the cop "attitude" that could lead to some serious charges being filed--charges that could pretty well fuck up your life.

All you have to do is to point at a cop and appear to the cop that your moved a few inches towards him or her to be charged with "assault on a law enforcement officer or threatening a law enforcement officer" or some such thing--which can be felony offenses.

Believe me-if a cop wants to--he or she is gonna find something to charge ya with that will stick--at least for a time.

It may piss you off--but the best way to deal with a cop is to keep your voice low and steady, always answer with a "yes sir or maam" be very defferential, don't do anything at all that comes off as "giving them attitude" and such----anything else--if the cop is an ahole---you can find yourself to be in deep shit really quickly---other than getting arrested---you could also get tasered too or hit with some pepper spray.

These things are especially true if you are young and are also a member of some minority group or look "counter cultural" in any way like having long hair if a male, dreadlocks, lots of tatts and piercings and coming off as "gay" in anyway is not too good either since you were a female kissing another female----things of that nature.

[ambi53mm]

A Busy Body with a badge...What could be more irritating than that? First I’d try to find out just exactly what the laws are in your locale in regard to displays of affection in public places…Small towns…who knows?…but at least you’d know for future situations. If it turns out you’re within your rights and have broken no laws…then I’d start at the local level and work my way up the ladder with everything at your disposal in any form of complaint against this individual.….of course small town mentality…there could be repercussions…often the whole “Justice” infrastructure can be monopolized by “family relations”. It may not have any immediate result but at least it would be documented…and who knows maybe he was breaking the law and in the process made himself libel for discipline within his own department… or maybe even a civil suit…..and if he harasses you as a result…again you have the documentation.
I’m no lover of authority figures who abuse their power and, try to force their own personal concept of morality on everyone else. There are enough busy bodies around without badges that seem to have things pretty well covered in that respect. Bummer ending to what sounds like an otherwise beautiful day.

Ambi:)

[shameless agitator]

Well, Volty's right about how nasty the abuse of power can really get. I've seen some pretty nasty examples of police brutality in my time. By all means, check out the laws on PDAs in your community. I have a feeling you weren't doing anything illegal or the cop wouldn't have exaggerated it into "having sex". If I'm right, the place to make your complaint would be with internal affairs. Every police dept has to have one, and they'll actually investigate rather than just sweep it under the rug like his superior is likely to do. If there are laws against public displays of affection, there's one question you need to ask yourself. Do you wanna be right, or do you want to solve the problem? If you want to just get along and not make a fuss, then it's yes officer, no officer & be careful where you kiss your partner. If you want to challenge the law, you can do so on the grounds that it's being applied inequitably. Unfortunately, before you can challenge a law, you have to get arrested for breaking it. Contact the ACLU & they can put you in touch with a lawyer who can walk you through the rest of the process & be on hand to bail you out.

[CuddlyKate]

I feel for you I really do. A little while ago my partner kissed me in a pub up north and the landlord got uptight and demanded we stop or leave. She is not a shrinking violet and stood on her rights as a human being and created a fuss. In this country we have "equality" with straight people and she demanded ours as other couples, straight of course had been doing similar things to us. She threatened the landlord with the police and the law. That he did back down was fortunate for they can eject anyone they like for whatever reason from their premises if they are unhappy about peoples behaviour. We were additionally lucky in that the straight people in the pub joined in the hoo ha on our side and for that reason I suspect more than fear of the law made him back down. That my partner would have pushed things to the limit and called the police I have no doubt, for we do have a modicum of sexual equality with straight people. However, those that caution you are right. It is not always wise to rely on the law to back us up, whether or not we have complete equality, for as my partner says they can always get you on something.

I live in an old country with a million laws no one has ever heard of and no one has used in centuries. However every so often we hear of such a law being dragged up and someone prosecuted on it. If they are unable to get you on one thing they will indeed find another, and if it means searching the statute book for something ancient then so be it. Usually the police dont need to be so tried and can come up with something more recent.

I am far more cautious and reserved than my partner, and have a residual respect for law and the need for it, something I am afraid she seems to lack. As people who are not of the mainstream we have to face much prejudice and it is something which will not disappear overnight whatever the law says. The police have more than its share of bigots and we have to understand and accept that. So while I agree we have rights, and they should be the same as for straight people or any other section of the community we must exercise those rights with care and caution.

Public displays of intimacy between same sex couples are increasingly common and are becoming more accepted. This is a good thing. I would not say do it all in private for we do have the right to live our lives and show the world what we feel. I do say always consider the circumstances and act with caution and as much vigilance as you can muster.

[jamieknyc]

A lot depends on what you are trying to do. If you want to take a stand for gay/bi rights, that is one thing. But otherwise, the other posters are right that it is not wise to start in with cops, for wahtever reason they are on your back.

[12voltman59]

I guess I should have clarified my comments---on the scene of a confrontation with a police officer if they are being difficult---don't push it with them--most likely you might get arrested.

As someone said--go and see what the laws and such in your community are---I think I can say that without much concern I am wrong--in no place in America is simply kissing someone in public any sort of crime----that being the case---call the PD and ask to speak to a superior officer----at least a watch commander if not an assistant chief or the chief him or herself and make your complaint--make sure you get the name and rank of this person, document the time and date of your call and make notes of your conversation--ask this person to get back with you in a reasonable amount of time--and then see what takes place--if they don't respond or respond in a way that you like--then--if the department is of any size---it will have an Internal Affairs type of division-if its a small one--then contact your local Sheriff's Office--they are the chief law enforcement officer in your community and document that conversation--if there is to be an investigation of your local PD--they are the first ones to talk to since they will be the ones to do that--if this does not do any good--go and contact your state's Attorney General's office--that is your "top" law enforcement officer in your state.

The thing is--with this case--since you were not arrested--nothing will happen--but it is good to know the process--and of course---you can always go to the press in such cases too--

[jamieknyc]

Don't assume that. Municipalities often have local laws about what you can and can't do in parks. This particular case was probably just some over-officious cop giving them a hard time. But when you make a police misconduct case out of it, town lawyers hit the books and discover that there is some half-forgotten local law that was passed eighty years ago because people complained that young couples were turning town parks into a local lovers' lane.

Of course, if someone wants to be a test case, that is a different story.

[stressed4life]

I'm not looking to press the issue. My former step mother was a dispatcher, I know most of the cops in town personally. I actually know the guys name and have talked to him on several occasions, though I don't think he remembered me.

I think he was more upset that the only response he got was "ok" from us. I think he expected one of us to say something smartass back. If my daughter hadn't have been with us, I probably would have. That's just how I am.

I know no one had a problem with public displays of affection at the park when it was me and my almost ex-husband, but he's another story.

I've decided to have a "what if you seen this happen" conversation with one of the higher ranking officers. I've learned first hand being a smart ass can get you in trouble. Actually got fined for throwing a cigarette butt out the window. Again, new cop and he hasn't said anything to me since.

I'm just wondering what it's going to be like when she moves here. Moving away from here isn't possible right now for me because I have family commitments, and I'm not going to stay in the house and hide because people don't want to see us together.

I just felt like I didn't defend our relationship enough, nor did I know how at the time. I know not saying anything to him was the best thing I could have done.

Thanks everyone for your input. You truly are a welcoming community.

[CuddlyKate]

Jamieknyc has knocked the nail on the head. I have only ever had two relationships with my own sex and was a teenager when I had the first. Displaying affection in the city's beautiful gardens we were approached by a policeman who informed us that unless we ceased immediately we would be arrested and charged with something like "conduct likely to cause an affray". That to me seems a bit of a catch all that if what you are doing is frowned upon then whther it is legal or not you can be arrested, charged and prosecuted. A kiss may not be illegal but the circumstances of that kiss, should the legal authorities consider it to be, can. This was 10 years ago and attitudes have changed sunstantially but not to such an extent that we can display our affections free and easy without the occasional irksome interference by the police. My present partner and I have on a few occasions had such run ins, and no doubt we shall have more in the years to come. We may have the same legal protections, rights and obligations of straight people, but in practice, only inasmuch as straight society's sensitivites and sense of morality are prepared to allow us.

[Eddie altamonte]

I guess we have to pick on own battles. That was very prudent you never want to be arrested when you have your child with you. There are so many morality laws in the books that this country should be embarassed by the policing of morality has been to this extent. I suggest that you may wish to write ur congressperson if police still enforce these inane blue laws. Going at it with a police officer is never a wise thing

[darkeyes]

Diff tween me an Kate on this is me believes we havta keep pushin bak the frontiers of wot we can an cant do...yea..we shud hav sum caution but not 2 much so.. ther r times..wen fuzz r on our necks or no wen we havta stand up an b counted.. now me don hav a wish 2 b a martyr.. but don mind openin me gob an standin up for wot me thinks is rite..an ther r times wen in the interests of progress we hav a moral obligation 2 do jus that.. it is jus cosa that determination by the queer communites the world ova we hav made woteva progress we hav..not by sittin down doin nowt an takin woteva the guardians of law an order an moral bollox decide 2 throw atya..

We r human beins woteva our sexuality..we hav rites, an wer our rites r less than ne 1 elses we shud b fitin 2 grab those rites for ourselves wetha its 2 do wiv our sexuality or ne thin else. An wer the rites we do hav r bein taken away, as they r in otha areas of life, we shud b standin up an bein counted an all..an doin everythin we can 2 make sure we keep wot generations of peeps throughout history hav gained for us. One thing me dus agree on..we havta pik our ground.. an know wer we can win.. martyrs r all very well an can b a cause 2 rally round.. but personally me wud prefer we didn hav ne martyrs not unless ther wos no alternative, an mostly me thinks ther is always an alternative 2 martyrdom..

An can me jus ask summat o gorge 1??? WTF r u doin in ere wile yas at work???? :tong: Gud mind 2 clipe onya...:bigrin:

[shameless agitator]

Che Guevarra Laid out a good set of criteria for picking your battles. Big enough to matter, small enough to win.

[wolfcamp]

stressed4life,
This may not have been directed entirely at you. Public parks and other public places are sometimes the locations of cruisey activities, meaning that men sometimes cruise these places to hookup of anonymous sex. This may be especially true if that park has any secluded areas like woods or brushy places or even public restrooms. Most cities make an active effort to stop crusing, and the cops are trained to look for that kind of activity and stop it. That's how Larry Craig, the Idaho senator got nabbed in the airport in Minneapolis.

You may have felt discriminated against, but the cop may have felt that he was being non-discriminatory by shutting down not only the cruisey men, but the cruisey women too. I know that you weren't cruising, but unfortunately you may have been caught up in a kind of crackdown. Call it non-discriminatory discrimination, if you will. The men have ruined it for more innocent activities like you were doing. I think the cop was being over zealous. If I were you I would just blow it off and be a little more aware the next time.

[FalconAngel]

Having had a few friends who are or were cops, I can tell you that, according to my police friends, the only way to deal with them is a strongly, yet politely worded letter to his immediate superior, citing (without prejudice) the events as they happened, the officer's words and actions, his name (if you got that), his car's unit number (if you saw it), badge number (if you know it) the time that it occurred and a statement that this kind of discrimination will not be tolerated. Make clear that it was a violation of your civil rights and particularly make note in the letter if the officer did not enforce that restriction on other couples (hetero or otherwise) that were similarly engaged at that time.
Also state that if it continues, the only option left will be to go to a civil rights attorney and sue the department if they either refuse to enforce the "kissing is considered sex" on ALL couples regardless of sexuality, or enlighten their officers to the difference between kissing and sexual activity.

Then notify them that copies of the letter are going to the State's Attorney's office, the chief of police (sheriff if it was a sheriff's deputy), his superior's superior, the city council and the Mayor. In the letters to the city council and Mayor, let them know that you are a registered voter and are part of a large political organization (they love to kiss up to special interest groups).

Politely end the letter, make a copy for yourself, copies that will be mailed to all of the above mentioned city/state officials and an explanation (with those copies) as to why they are being contacted about this issue.

Send a copy of the incident to the local or area newspaper as well. Police departments hate bad press.

[PolyLoveTriad]

I agree, find out what the laws are for where you were at. If it isn't against the law, I would find out who the superior officer is. Id explain to him what happened and how you were offended and that you feel the officer was harassing you instead of doing his job, busting real criminals. If you don't feel the satisfaction you are looking for, go above the superior officer. When all else fails, police departments hate it when they get bad publicity. Its their job to uphold the law, not harass you for a kiss or make you feel as if you've done something wrong. The odds are a kiss is not illegal or this pecker head would have either given you a citation or taken you to jail. Stand up for yourself and take action is what I think!

[jamieknyc]

Diff tween me an Kate on this is me believes we havta keep pushin bak the frontiers of wot we can an cant do...yea..we shud hav sum caution but not 2 much so.. ther r times..wen fuzz r on our necks or no wen we havta stand up an b counted.. now me don hav a wish 2 b a martyr.. but don mind openin me gob an standin up for wot me thinks is rite..an ther r times wen in the interests of progress we hav a moral obligation 2 do jus that.. it is jus cosa that determination by the queer communites the world ova we hav made woteva progress we hav..not by sittin down doin nowt an takin woteva the guardians of law an order an moral bollox decide 2 throw atya..

We r human beins woteva our sexuality..we hav rites, an wer our rites r less than ne 1 elses we shud b fitin 2 grab those rites for ourselves wetha its 2 do wiv our sexuality or ne thin else. An wer the rites we do hav r bein taken away, as they r in otha areas of life, we shud b standin up an bein counted an all..an doin everythin we can 2 make sure we keep wot generations of peeps throughout history hav gained for us. One thing me dus agree on..we havta pik our ground.. an know wer we can win.. martyrs r all very well an can b a cause 2 rally round.. but personally me wud prefer we didn hav ne martyrs not unless ther wos no alternative, an mostly me thinks ther is always an alternative 2 martyrdom..

An can me jus ask summat o gorge 1??? WTF r u doin in ere wile yas at work???? :tong: Gud mind 2 clipe onya...:bigrin:

You also have to take into account, though, that even if you want to be a militant, your partner may not, and you don't have a right to make them become an unwilling participant.

[darkeyes]

You also have to take into account, though, that even if you want to be a militant, your partner may not, and you don't have a right to make them become an unwilling participant.Don misjudge me Jamie... am not 1 who demands that peeps..no matta how much me adores em..follow me in everythin..2 do so is arrogant stupid selfish an plain rong...

Kate an me hav 1 thing in common if nowt else... a stubborn streak wich makes it a lil diff 2 get eitha of us 2 do ne thin we don wan 2 or we disagree wiv...