Important "Gay Rights Case" to go for oral arugments before the SCOTUS

[12voltman59]

Today, oral arguments will be heard in a case that could have far reaching implications for both gay rights and for the ability of groups to be able to receive public money when they are openly discriminatory--plus other implications to boot!!

http://pewforum.org/news/display.php?NewsID=19964

What this group is really asking for is not for protection of their rights to be able to discriminate--but to receive public money to be able to discriiminate.

They had a very good report on this issue earlier today on National Public Radio's "Morning Edition."

Later today----they will post the story to the website and offer the audio of the segment--when it becomes available----I will post it then.

To whoever it was that got pissed that many of us dislike religion--especially "Christian" ones----speaking for myself---I am not against all Christian people or all Christian religious faiths----I am only critical and negative about the ones that I consider to be "faux christians" which do include a fair number of these either fundamentalist or evangelical types----to me--they may greatly invoke the name of Jesus and all--but they don't seem to follow what I was taught is "the true spirit of Christ" as expressed by things like compassion, empathy and other like Christ-like elements.

To me----the "faux christians" operate in a very un-Christ like way--that they base everything on fear and hate--and you can also add into that unholy mix---a bit of greed too!!

As I have said before in other posts---when any group of any sort steps into the fray to try to get hold of the reigns of the power of the state---then they are just one more group in that fight and they cannot go and hide under God's apron strings!!!

I would ask those people----do they really take the lessons of Christ to heart and think about them???? Christ basically made it no secret--he was about offering aid and comfort to the lessor among us and to afflict the wealthy and powerful, NOT the other way around!!!!!!!

Do they really believe that if Jesus came back today----he or SHE!!!!! would be up on the stage with them--wearing thousand dolllar suits and made out with tons of tacky jewlery in one of those high tech, perfect world, hermetically sealed "mega-churches" out in the well healed suburbs of America---and those burbs being near some city in the South??

I bet that if Jesus came back today----SHE---would be just about everything that they love to hate: Jesus would probably be poor, of some non-white minority group---like the campesinos of some Latin American country, be gay, be a socialist and or communist--or at least what those well off folks in the mega-churches would consider to be to be such!!

I really doubt that Jesus or Jesussina would be much welcome in one of their churches providing "Jesus" would act the same today as he did the first go round!!

So---when it comes to this brand of "christian"--damn right I am gonna diss them!!!

Do you think they really have any respect for any of us here??

We have talked in at least one previous post about the proposed laws over in Kenya that would be highly punative when it comes to dealing with "gay" people. It is very clear the connection those people have to at least one cohort of fundy type people here in the states--and while the leaders of that group here may not be so imprudent as to openly call for at least imprisoning or even putting to death, "gays"---it is really only that it doesn't make for good PR over here to openly hold such a view. I am sure that in the private talks the leaders of that American group have had with those Kenyan lawmakers, this sort of talk was bandied about---and instead of just being "dreams" or feellings about "the way you have to deal with these gay people"--the Kenyans took those words to heart and are trying to put them into law!!

Even before I came to consider myself to be bisexual----with my interest in freedom, rights and such---I knew that getting rid of things like "gay rights" or "reproductive rights" when it comes to abortion and contraception----those are merely "Phase One" steps on the agenda of those who would use the power of the state to impose those things upon the rest of us they failed to impress upon us by being living exemplars of the state of being they so dream about and certainly preach about, ad nauseum.

I am especially interested in this subject now----not because I want some freedom to just "do as I will"--I know that I live a good life--and even though I may enjoy not only "laying with a woman"--I also greatly enjoy "laying with man as though a woman!!" and as a citizen of a country that is dedicated to personal freedoms and liberty and justice for all!!! I should be FREE sexually to do as I CHOSE as long as it is between myself and another consenting adult!!!!

If those people were of the mindset of "Live and Let Live!!! living their lives according to their own dicates and not being concerned with what others do or don't do in their lives---then I would not give a Rat's Ass what they believe---but they don't believe in "Live and Let Live" and if they had their druthers, they would deny me and many others our full set of rights to "Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness!" that is supposed to be our "God Given Right" as an American citizens, in my case specifically because I so chose at times to have sexual relations with other males.

PISSED ABOUT THAT!!!! GODDDAMED FUCKING A RIGHT I AM FUCKING PISSED ABOUT THAT!!!!

And if you don't like that my friend--STICK IT DEEP WITHOUT LUBE WHERE THE SUN NEVER FUCKING SHINES!!!!!

I am not sorry that these words may be offensive to some who consider themselves Christian, it seems that some always do "take offense"--- well too bad!!--they must not be reading what I say all that closely I guess----I think I have made it quite clear on this and many other occassions that I do not mean ALL CHRISTIANS when I speak as I do--I am just speaking about a certain aspect of modern Christianity and those who adhere to it---for they do offend me and others who feel as I do and those "Christians" don't feel any compunction that they have to aploogize to us for what they say about us and what they feel should happen to us because we commit our "SINS"!!!!

[FalconAngel]

I wish that I could say something, but you said all that was worth saying.

You are still my hero.:bigrin:

[12voltman59]

The link to the NPR story on this case:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=126058636

[Long Duck Dong]

oral opening statements to the supreme court (http://www.supremecourt.gov/oral_arguments/argument_transcripts/08-1371.pdf)

interesting..... it appears that the CLS want to have the right to discriminate legally and without prejudice but they deny that they would exclude a person on the grounds of sexuality, and admit they would expel a person for having homosexual sex....

I am not that stupid that I would believe that for a moment, cos unless you caught the person in bed in the act of sex, you have no proof, only hearsay... unless they intend to class any act between two persons of the same gender to be a manner likely to lead to sexual conduction.....
( the catholic church did ban hugging and kissing way back about the 12th-14th century ? cos it led to sexual immorality )

looks like they are trying to have a loophole as a back door.... if we have to admit you we will, until we can come up with enuf evidence to kick you back out again
nasty lil trick.....

gay christian lawyers.... never met one.... are there any ????

[darkeyes]

oral opening statements to the supreme court (http://www.supremecourt.gov/oral_arguments/argument_transcripts/08-1371.pdf)

interesting..... it appears that the CLS want to have the right to discriminate legally and without prejudice but they deny that they would exclude a person on the grounds of sexuality, and admit they would expel a person for having homosexual sex....

I am not that stupid that I would believe that for a moment, cos unless you caught the person in bed in the act of sex, you have no proof, only hearsay... unless they intend to class any act between two persons of the same gender to be a manner likely to lead to sexual conduction.....
( the catholic church did ban hugging and kissing way back about the 12th-14th century ? cos it led to sexual immorality )

looks like they are trying to have a loophole as a back door.... if we have to admit you we will, until we can come up with enuf evidence to kick you back out again
nasty lil trick.....

gay christian lawyers.... never met one.... are there any ????

Ne organisation which excludes from membership ne person for committing a legal act is an affront. The mainstream churches in the UK allow homosexuals to be priests and ministers as long as they do not have their end away with someone of the same sex.. the exception is the Roman Catholic Church who of course dont allow homosexuals any role whatever except gross sinner (officially that is..we know the reality).. I find this an affront also, but such exemptions will continue until such time as the state realises that if churches wish to receive the many benefits from the state that they do they had better fall into line with the law PDQ.. but you're right Duckie..in the case in point the reality is that, like the BNP here with non white membership, they may allow one thing yet do all they can to stop it ever becoming reality.

Yes Duckie..I know several gay Christian lawyers.. two are really screwed up, and the other is very sexy and lives with the most gorgeous girl from Ghana...

[12voltman59]

Thanks for posting up the link to the actual oral arguments testimony----based on what I read there--the court could rule against the school---not so much for the actual policy itself---but because of some inconsistencies between the more specific written policy and the less formal "all comers" policy and also with some inconsitencies the school has done in the way it has allowed some groups to establish membership criteria that might be less than all welcoming.

If they do rule against the school---I hope the ruling is narrowly confined to those inconsistencies in the policy and not rule on the broader issues at stake in this case regarding the ability of groups like the CLS to be able to get taxpayer funds and be allowed to discriminate.

From the questions of the justices and the documents they were looking at--it seems the SCOTUS members are more interested in the purely technical aspects of the policies and not the issues of "rights" and such even though they got into that aspect some--but from some of the questions---it looked like the court members were looking at a way they could rule on narrow grounds regarding the technical aspects of the policies and not the Consitutional points--of course---the attorneys for both sides didn't think the Court could only rule on the narrow legal aspects without considering the Constitutional questions too.

We will know the outcome of this case this coming fall when they announce their ruling--that usually happens sometime in October when they announce their decisions on cases they have heard at this time of year.

[FalconAngel]

gay christian lawyers.... never met one.... are there any ????

I've never heard of one, either and I married into a family of lawyers and former lawyers.

[12voltman59]

I am sure there are some gay christian lawyers out there (probably in very deep denial to themselves if no one else)----there are plenty of pretty right wing types who are gay or gays who are pretty right wing types--however ya want to phrase that-----look at the "Log Cabin Republicans"--it was once a pretty big and somewhat powerful group in the GOP--I don't know if it is so much these days or not though.

It would be sad if some of these gay christian lawyers are actively working for outfits that are working to strip GLBT people of rights and such, but it would not surprise me at all to find this is the case!!!