My Bi-sexual Paradoxes

[BiByNature]

OK, here is how I view the bisexual world. I mostly like girls, and date regularly. However, for many years now, I have wanted to suck a dick. Sometimes, desperately so. When it comes to any other sexual contact with a guy, I just can’t picture myself doing that. I want to blow him, to completion and beyond, and then that’s it. I guess it’s called “blow and go”.

I know that there is a lot of selfishness here, but I am who I am. I constantly soul-search, and I have done quite a bit of research. I’m past wondering if I’m gay or not, or if I’m just really weird. All I want, or would be able to provide, is me sucking a dick, and it ends there. That’s who I am, and it won’t change.

While I have made quite a bit of progress in researching my sexuality, I am left with a couple of significant issues that I can’t resolve.

First, I want to experience having a man cum in my mouth, be able to play around with it for a little while, and then swallow. I don’t want to use a condom. I don’t know why I require it to be this way, but I doubt that I will ever change my mind. I fully realize the gravity of this behavior – I would be risking my life. I can’t come up with any scenario where I would feel safe. I want to suck a dick and swallow, but I won’t accept the risk. That is my main dilemma.

Second, I’m not sure where to find a suitable partner. I’m sure that there are tons of guys that would love to get sucked off, and not have to reciprocate. I have seen a lot of online dating sites – LGBT, Bi-Sexual, etc. There is also CraigsList. However, I have heard all kind of horror stories about these. Many years ago, a friend hooked up with another guy through a local newspaper. When he went to meet him, he was greeted by a mob with baseball bats – it was a set-up. Fortunately he was very athletic, and got away OK.

I have been thinking that, in a perfect world, I would be able to hook up with someone I already know and trust. I’m in the bi-sexual closet, and I intend to stay there. I don’t want friends/family/co-workers to find out. But how do you identify possible partners, and how do you ask them without outing yourself?

Once again, I fully realize that my desires and requirements are very selfish. I’m not a selfish person – quite the opposite – so this situation is very confusing to me.

So, there they are – my two paradoxes:
1) I want cum in my mouth, but I’m not willing to risk STD’s.
2) I would like to find a partner that I know and trust, but I don’t want to be outed.

I know that I will probably never find solutions to these problems. But I am going to keep on trying.

Any advice?

[JayGreen99]

I just have to say your description sounds exactly like me. I wouldn't have changed a word. I love my wife, and love sex with her. But there are times when I can't think of anything but sucking a hard cock and enjoying the rewards.

Good luck.

[MrBisex]

I would try out a bisexual dating site. See If I could find a couple or a bi man, make you point clearly what you want and then go for it.

I think many have that fantasy, me personally I would like to suck a big hard cock together with a girl and then share the cum.

Is that normal ?

[NEPHX]

I fully realize the gravity of this behavior – I would be risking my life..... I can’t come up with any scenario where I would feel safe. I want to suck a dick and swallow, but I won’t accept the risk.


You should do more research into risk. Statistically, you don't put your life at risk having oral sex even with the guy cumming in your mouth EVEN if he is HIV positive. You have a risk of STD regardless of who (male or female) that you have intimate contact. You have a much higher risk of getting something such as HIV from having PIV with a female (without using a condom) than oral sex with a male partner.

Sounds to me that your scenarios are more about risk of you being outed somehow and paranoid than anything else. You don't mention if you're married or have a female partner.



So, there they are – my two paradoxes:
1) I want cum in my mouth, but I’m not willing to risk STD’s.
2) I would like to find a partner that I know and trust, but I don’t want to be outed.

These are not paradoxes because in each case, both things can exist at the same time whether you think they can or not.

1. You can have oral sex with someone, have them cum in your mouth and not get an STD: if the guy doesn't have an STD.

2. You can find a partner you trust and not be outed. You can get to know someone, then trust them without being outed, well, HE'LL know so, in fact I guess you would be outed to someone.

The ISSUE is that you don't grasp that LIFE in general is a risk and there are ways to mitigate risks. You seem to be simply throwing up obstacles and self-inhibitors. But, if that works for you, then you can go with it.

It also sounds like you're over analyzing your supposed unique situation (not unique) and intellectualizing your desire (good to avoid rationalizing /intellectualizing desires/emotions) then using those as inhibitors to the fulfill your sexual desires.




Once again, I fully realize that my desires and requirements are very selfish. I’m not a selfish person – quite the opposite – so this situation is very confusing to me.


As far as your claim about being selfish, sexual desires are by their very nature, selfish. Many will claim they want to "just please their partner." The desire to just please their partner is selfish because, your partner will likely want to please you as well.

An interesting study recently (http://www.aolhealth.com/bloggers/ronnie-koenig)

"....people who are sexually self-focused, or selfish in bed, are often the ones who actually have the most fulfilling sex lives...."

"...We found that as a partner's sexual self-focus decreased, their partner's satisfaction decreased...."


If you think about it, and I know this is true with me for sure, the last time you were with someone and really turned on (by whatever) you were likely a much better lover because of it.

=====================

Bottom line is really your choice to pursue sexual activities with a guy (or anyone) without some risk. You don't really know if you'd enjoy more than the oral you've talked about until you experience it. How do you know what your desires will evolve to if you've never touched a male before. I would be willing to bet that you have more desire for men than just sucking their cock. You probably are attracted to certain kinds of men, their looks, personality, whatever. You might not be able to grasp or allow yourself to admit those attractions at this point. I would say that rarely is someone just turned on by a cock without being attracted to the guy its attached to.

By the way (said in jest), you really shouldn't kiss anyone (female or male) either as you can (theoretically) get herpes at any given time from any contact. You never know if she (or he) has sucked a dick recently. And, you might consider stopping at every GREEN light and checking all possible traffic and air patterns in the area because you don't know if that other guy is going to stop, if his brakes will fail, if a light plane could zoom through the intersection unannounced, if an asteroid will crash to earth, etc. bottom line, you can only mitigate risk to certain levels AND live without needing serious medication.

So, do more research. But, at least you posted... that's a good 1st step :bigrin:

[Realist]

The first guy I had sex with was exactly the same. He wanted to suck me, have me cum in his mouth and then I could leave. Any time I wanted to have an orgasm, he would drop whatever he was doing and go down on me. Since he was a lot older than me and we had little in common, it worked fine for us both. As I grew older, though, I wanted and needed more.

[BiByNature]

NEPHX,

First off, I do plead guilty to taking risks with female partners in the past. I have rationalized this risky behavior for a number of reasons, but usually because I was horny and/or drunk. (Read stupid.) Your point that the risk with males vs. females is the same is well taken. Thank you for pointing that out, I did not see that before.

I do realize that my situation is far from unique. That is why I posted, to see what others in like circumstances have done.

In my research about risks with oral sex, I have not found any real consensus among the “experts” about the actual risk of any type of oral sex. Some say don’t ever do it, some say go for it. It’s hard to judge who is more accurate.

Thank you for your insight.

[bensonmum65]

Many years ago, a friend hooked up with another guy through a local newspaper. When he went to meet him, he was greeted by a mob with baseball bats – it was a set-up. Fortunately he was very athletic, and got away OK.

Why not your hook up with your friend?

[BiByNature]

Why not your hook up with your friend?

He is married. Yep - to another man. You can do that in Connecticut. :^)

[slipnslide]

That's not true that giving oral sex is zero or low risk even if the person is HIV+ or has AIDS, and yes your risk does go way up if they cum in your mouth or you get precum in your mouth. You can have small cuts or broken skin in your mouth and you wouldn't know it.

<snip>

I know more than a few men who have become Poz from sucking cock and they got it from this because they are not into anal sex or vaginal sex at all.

<snip>

That's what my friends who have had sex with guys that have HIV/AIDS do.

The doctors at http://medhelp.org don't seem to agree. From the medical professionals http://www.medhelp.org/posts/HIV-Prevention/Oral-sex-used-to-safe-now-slight-possibility-/show/1280442

"As we have each also said before, the most conservative figure cited for risk of HIV from receipt of oral sex is that IF a partner is infected the risk of transmission is 1 in 10,000 and both of us feel that this estimate is far too high. If it were 1 in 10,000 however and there was a 1% chance that your partner had HIV (again, a conservative but not unreasonable estimate for a stripper) then your risk of HIV would bee, AT HIGHEST, 1 in million. Is that high?, I do not think so. "

Or here http://www.medhelp.org/posts/HIV-Prevention/Dating-and-Oral-Sex-with-HIV-Positive-Male/show/1277981

"The quoted figure for HIV risk, if one has oral sex with an infected partner is less than 1 in 10,000 and, in my estimation that is too high. Some experts state there is no risk at all from oral sex. Neither of us on this site have ever seen or reading the medical literature of a convincing instance in which HIV was passed by oral sex. This includes by all of the people who had gum disease, etc. Condoms further reduce the infinitesimal risk of infection form oral sex, if such is possible."

[NEPHX]

That's not true that giving oral sex is zero or low risk even if the person is HIV+ or has AIDS, and yes your risk does go way up if they cum in your mouth or you get precum in your mouth. You can have small cuts or broken skin in your mouth and you wouldn't know it.

Yes giving oral sex is lower risk than unprotected anal or vaginal sex can be but you can still get HIV from giving oral sex.


"way up" no. It is MUCH harder to get HIV than most people realize except the very high risk behavior or unprotected receiving anal or vaginal.

However, do watch that no one shoots cum in your eye. It is PH- and can irritate the eye popping capillaries and then you could actually face infection (actually more readily than oral).

What I said:
"You should do more research into risk. Statistically, you don't put your life at risk having oral sex even with the guy cumming in your mouth EVEN if he is HIV positive. You have a risk of STD regardless of who (male or female) that you have intimate contact."

Part of what Slipslide added:



"..... Neither of us on this site have ever seen or reading the medical literature of a convincing instance in which HIV was passed by oral sex. This includes by all of the people who had gum disease, etc. Condoms further reduce the infinitesimal risk of infection form oral sex, if such is possible......"

Its not statistically, "putting your life at risk" Because, the possibilities of getting HIV from oral sex is so infinitesimal its not EVEN statistically significant.

An example of statistical significance is when Canada's regulatory agency removed Adderrall from the market for a few weeks in 2005. 10 people had died world-wide out of millions of doses. Turns out that 5 had undisclosed pre-existing condition leading to their death. The other 5 are statistically insignificance out of millions of cases. People die from odd things every day. Just because it can be proven that its "possible" to get HIV from oral sex does not mean its even remotely probably as is the case from HIV. You should still pay attention to safer sex. That is another story.

No one has mentioned yet that most people that know they are HIV+ are generally (not always of course) taking meds which further reduces the risk as the viral load is usually reduced to undetectable levels. And. many if not most are very cautious if they are HIV+. Some are not of course.



If you are with someone who is HIV+ or you're not sure if they are Poz or not either use condoms or just don't give them oral sex and make sure that your penis does not have any cuts or open sores on it.

That's what my friends who have had sex with guys that have HIV/AIDS do.


Of course the best advise is to treat everyone as if they are HIV+ even if they say there were tested negative this morning (3-6 month window). Use safer sex practices. Until you are in a committed relationship where you and your partner have some buy in to each other but even they you just never know.

As is a good idea but I'm sure they are not 100% either... again, what they "tell you" and what they "DO" are two different things.

Differentiating between HIV and AIDS is no considered significant.



I know more than a few men who have become Poz from sucking cock and they got it from this because they are not into anal sex or vaginal sex at all.


That's BS. They did not get it from oral. They may tell you so. If you are so informed, you should call the CDC as they would love to talk to you... because the reality is they HAVE NOT specifically confirm a single real world transmission of HIV through oral sex. They can confirm the possibility that it could be transmitted orally but never have they confirmed a case. That is a fact that you can easily research.

Reality is you'd have to have open bleeding sores in your mouth and the guy/female would have to have high viral load in direct contact with the blood access point. Not sure who swishes a strangers cum around their mouth.... most swallow it or its already almost halfway down their throat.

From the CDC (who error on the side of foolish caution like abstinence-only education):

"Measuring the exact risk of HIV transmission as a result of oral sex is very difficult. Additionally, because most sexually active individuals practice oral sex in addition to other forms of sex, such as vaginal and/or anal sex, when transmission occurs, it is difficult to determine whether or not it occurred as a result of oral sex or other more risky sexual activities."

I am not advocating for anyone to have unprotected oral encounters with strangers anyone else. No "authority is going to tell you that unprotected oral sex is completely safe. Kind of like they say "feeding 1000pounds of some chemical to a lab rat causes cancer - it could happen but who eats 1000 pounds of that chemical?

Risk mitigation is key. Meet appropriate and safe people, hope they are truthful when they say they get tested, get tested with them, use safer sex practices and make a life choice. I know medical professional that haven together 30+ years that still use condoms. And, I know many mix couples with one HIV+ and one HIV- that use safer sex practices and know where their risk lie and one the HIV- guys are still HIV-.

However, BiByNature eluded to his having an oral encounter is a death sentence which it is not. On the minuscule chance he got HIV its not a death sentence. And, he could very well get it or a number of other things from a female. In addition many coupled people are in denial about their own risks not really knowing if they can fully trust their partner/husband/wife and are exposed to HIV and other STDs in a relationship from a cheating partner who had some form of more dangerous unprotected intimate contact.

Fear of contact and good safe and sane sexual exploration is the issue BiByNature is really discussing. Scaring the hell out of him (or him doing it to himself) does not one a bit of good nor does underestimating the risk.

The reality is he alludes to sexual desires without real-world (our society) methods of achieving those desires.. meeting someone, knowing their history, wanting more than to do what he wants to do. Not a lot of prospects but there are married guys that hook up just with each other and no one else (called Closed-Loop Relationship) that very successfully reduces the risk factor to zero if both parties stick to it. (There was a huge yahoo group). But who do/can you trust?

[NEPHX]

NEPHX,
First off, I do plead guilty to taking risks with female partners in the past. I have rationalized this risky behavior for a number of reasons, but usually because I was horny and/or drunk. (Read stupid.) Your point that the risk with males vs. females is the same is well taken. Thank you for pointing that out, I did not see that before.

Not uncommon... we never thought about any of that until late 1980's and sometimes beyond (hard to find info back then) as it was just a "gay thing." It takes us all serious discipline to remember and follow the best practices. That's usually because we're thinkin without little head :bigrin:

Remember what you just said: "because I was horny and/or drunk. (Read stupid.)" which is what could happen when your with a guy. But, again.... see my long post above. The most common way that people get HIV is having unprotected receiver anal and/or vaginal sex with a partner that does not know they have HIV and is not on meds. (PERIOD).

Guess how many were horney and drunk and wouldn't normally have considered such behavior normally?

Guess how many have done it with guys when they were horney and drunk but the "top" happened to be HIV NEGATIVE and were lucky. Or with HIV POSITIVE and were luckier still!! (low viral load, on meds).

Guess how many people don't know they can get HIV from being a top only? LOTS.

So, oral becomes pretty insignificant considering the rest.. just say... there are worse things to do.

But be safer...

The real question is how to follow your desires safely.



In my research about risks with oral sex, I have not found any real consensus among the “experts” about the actual risk of any type of oral sex. Some say don’t ever do it, some say go for it. It’s hard to judge who is more accurate.


Sorting through what the experts say is the trick. Identifying faulty studies is also an adventure. The only "safe sex" is masturbation (by yourself).

[ohbimale]

Your situation is not unique. You can find another man to explore with. Just be carefull out there and get to know him first before going down on him. There is no completely safe situation. You will have risks with either sex. The important thing is to be carefull. If something seems wrong, don't pursue it any further and move on.

Giving head to a guy is fun. :male::bipride::male:

[citystyleguy]

my, my, you are a set of paradoxes on steriods!

this is only my opinion of course, as each must choose their own pathway, but for starters, enough with the research, just how much do you need to know before you go blind?

then, you label your self bibynature, but dont want to come out of the closet, you wanna suck dick, but with safety? get off the teacup ride and make a decision, life is to short for all this dithering; i would suggest a gay club for all the dick sucking you want, but then there is paradox numero uno! ...and then there is the safety question with websites, etc

oh, hell this is making my head hurt, i'll leave it to others here to help, but without commitment and decisive action, you may as well give up on the first, and work on the second (see comments regarding another thread here on dating; maybe those suggestions can help on this paradox)

[NEPHX]

I'm not going to argue with you.
but you do anyway...
You are giving out wrong advice though about how giving oral sex for HIV transmission is completely safe sex and poses no/zero risk for getting HIV.
Oops. there is that issue with reading again... I didn't say "poses no/zero risk" those are your words no matter how much you keep insisting. Risk is a matter of numbers and probabilities based on known data. I don't see anyone, least of all me, giving advise about not using safer-sex as the discussion is about desires and risk factors and their mitigation.:rolleyes:
Most men who are bisexual and gay and Poz do lie about it ...
Really you think?? Except they tell YOU their truth about how they became positive (its called denial).



Just one of your reference link: www.sfaf.org (and they all say basically the same thing... and risk increase with each more risky behavior.):

"There are, however, a few documented cases where it appears that HIV was transmitted orally."

Again, the operative words are "appears" and "a couple" which is statistically insignificant and, again not explicitly shown to be attributed to oral sexual contact only.

(Put that in focus) 33.4 million (Nov 2009) people living with HIV today and the more than 25 million people have died of AIDS since 1981. Lets say 2-3 cases is a couple and out of maybe 58.4 million known cases .. that's 0.00005&#37;. multiply it by a 100, a 1000, and we still get statistically insignificant.

Consider that one has a higher probability of DYING from bad hamburger, e-coli in salad, etc. Of course, the more one do unsafe things and the more open bleeding sores in one's mouth while sucking off a 2-dollar back-ally male ho in a backwater city in the 3rd world and then let him cum in your mouth tthen, he risk climbing exponentially.

And, you did say: "I know more than a few men" That is quite a statistical abnormality. So, again, please ring up the CDC with your knowledge of these hold-outs!

Yes: safer sex, understand the risks, mitigate the risks... NO: don't scare the hell out of people about HIV - the fear of which is a stigma all by itself and an inhibitor to many coming out. Someone comes out and a-dime-to-a-donut there is at least one family member that will scream "oh my God are you going to die of AIDS"

You're supposedly new here but I'm betting maybe not.

[just4mefc]

All stats are based on a relatively small data pool so if one was too say "hey you have a gazillion to 1 chance to win a bet" then hell yeah I will bet the house on it. But if the consequence of the 1 is potential of hiv/aids then I change my opinion. Because if I happen to be the ONE I might not be statistically relevant but I am personally fucked!!! So while I love to swallow, I would not do so until I had at least developed a monogamous tested safe sex relationship. Of course the person might lie etc... But at least I am basing my decision on mutual concern with my sexual partner. So while I agree that the measured numbers favor oral unprotected sex over any other form of bareback activity, there IS a theoretical risk. But when the data pool rely's on someones honesty or hell even memory that data pool will be weak at best. I also agree that some risks are appropriate and being true to yourself is very important. So my opinion is to use protection at first, develop the relationship into a tested safe monogamous place and then have a great time swallowing to your hearts (or taste buds) content :tongue:

[someotherguy]

The research you should have done would have been about personal integrity.

People who out of fear live lies will create many problems for themselves and others as they go sneaking along. Remember that "being in the closet" is just another way of saying "I lie to everyone about my sexuality". That gets amusing when there is also a desire for a trustworthy sex partner. I am not sure what the rule is exactly, or who makes the rules, but just on the face of it I would be surprised to learn if liars are even eligible for trustworthy partners. I think you have to be open and honest yourself to enjoy that kind of association with others.

Come out of the closet. Tell everyone you know and all of their friends that although you mainly like women you also have this pesky craving to suck the cum out of another man's dick. They will see your honesty in action and be inclined to view you as a safe partner for sex.

The thing about sexual preferences is, that except for some small towns and certain religions, nobody cares anymore. If anything, you can be disappointed with the lack of fuss made when you finally admit your likes to the people who already suspected as much.

The paradox is about wanting something which is safe only based on trust, while you are being duplicitous yourself.

[NEPHX]

I know I'll get called a liar by ignorant people who want to stay in complete
denial about how you can get HIV from giving oral sex but that's OK I really don't care. I know that my experience is true and valid.


How convenient...just happen to create a new user id yesterday...

roughandgruffplay, you're incredible. how many use ids do you have? Perhaps, you would like to list the former IDs as well. You know, the ones that got banned from this site?

[void()]

Void enters, hugs and gives NEPHX a fond kiss on the facial cheek.

"And they call me a wannabe head shrink. You go, boy."

Void fades off into the obscurity.

[darkeyes]

How convenient...just happen to create a new user id yesterday...

roughandgruffplay, you're incredible. how many use ids do you have? Perhaps, you would like to list the former IDs as well. You know, the ones that got banned from this site?

However many ID's he has... that does not mean he is wrong...

[NEPHX]

However many ID's he has... that does not mean he is wrong...
Nor does it mean he is correct. But, why he would feel the need to create an ID just to support his opinion but not provide actual documented case is the scary part. Its simply completely unsupported. Support it with credible FACT and then we can consider the implications. Making a statement such as he did doesn't make it fact either.

He/she (either ID) provides not a shred of credible documented published (in a credible medical journal) of a single example of an explicit real world case. Because, there are none or few it any at all. Except our poor little lab rats or lab experiments. The word "a couple cases" and "appear attributed" are used by recognized medical research organizations for a reason.

LeFurtographer, if his case is documented by the CDC, could be easy provide reference documentation. It would have been written up in a medical journal. That's what the researchers, especially in HIV researcher, DO. And, LeFurtographer or anyone else that is HIV+ wouldn't likely post a msg like his #2 after being positive for 10-years.

These two user id's are likely the same person and are likely our troll back to visit and cause problems by going to the absurd. I believe that if you watch you'll likely see a repeat (or a 3rd or more ID for his exploits). Usually, his type take the opposite of any position and defend it without credible support to the death (ie banned).

The bottom line is the post by LeFurtographer is mis-information as it is un supported and undocumented by a credible source. The chances of him suddenly appearing out of no-where, in a different place in the US, posting his 1st post on all the little topics SUDDENLY is so silly it stupid. But, once its written on the Internet, it takes on a life of its own. Now, every webspider will index LeFurtographer as the only verifiable case of HIV from oral sex when in fact, its not verifiable or supported in anyway.

He'll likely switch IDs yet again, flame up something/someone else with circular and unsupported logic.

This is the kind of user that makes people drop off of forums like this. No active moderation, crazy posters and poof.... discussion become ego trips for the Borderline Personality Defect-inflicted Narcissist.

[NEPHX]

Void enters, hugs and gives NEPHX a fond kiss on the facial cheek.

"And they call me a wannabe head shrink. You go, boy."

Void fades off into the obscurity.

lol Void, thanks, I try... some of us have been around this topic and involved with the issues for many years (I am not HIV+). I do a lot of work in this area. There are certain discussions that will get me going like nothing else. :eek:

[darkeyes]

I do agree that we should never scare the hell out of anyone about HIV. But neither should we hide the truth.. he is right is he not, that it is possible to become HIV positive through having oral sex when we have open sores or cuts around and in the mouth. I agree that it is much less likely than by having vaginal or anal sex because somehow the virus doesnt do too well in the stomache.

[tommyswing]

theoretically It is possible to get HIV from oral sex, the fact they can't find any or one or two cases of HIV from oral sex out of millions and millions cases over thirty years would make it low risk.
However if you want to be completly safe avoid all sex, condoms can break during any type of sex. I think you could make the argument that using a condom for vaginal or anal intercourse is risker than unprotected oral sex.
In the early eightys in Sanfransico HIV was out of control infection rate was very high. They introduced condoms and the rate went down to zero, gay and bisexual men stupidly began barbacking a few years later.
With that said I never let a guy come in my mouth, I'm just not comfortable going that far. Bottom line there is a difference between theoretical risk and actual risk

[just4mefc]

Nor does it mean he is correct. But, why he would feel the need to create an ID just to support his opinion but not provide actual documented case is the scary part. Its simply completely unsupported. Support it with credible FACT and then we can consider the implications. Making a statement such as he did doesn't make it fact either.

He/she (either ID) provides not a shred of credible documented published (in a credible medical journal) of a single example of an explicit real world case. Because, there are none or few it any at all. Except our poor little lab rats or lab experiments. The word "a couple cases" and "appear attributed" are used by recognized medical research organizations for a reason.

LeFurtographer, if his case is documented by the CDC, could be easy provide reference documentation. It would have been written up in a medical journal. That's what the researchers, especially in HIV researcher, DO. And, LeFurtographer or anyone else that is HIV+ wouldn't likely post a msg like his #2 after being positive for 10-years.

These two user id's are likely the same person and are likely our troll back to visit and cause problems by going to the absurd. I believe that if you watch you'll likely see a repeat (or a 3rd or more ID for his exploits). Usually, his type take the opposite of any position and defend it without credible support to the death (ie banned).

The bottom line is the post by LeFurtographer is mis-information as it is un supported and undocumented by a credible source. The chances of him suddenly appearing out of no-where, in a different place in the US, posting his 1st post on all the little topics SUDDENLY is so silly it stupid. But, once its written on the Internet, it takes on a life of its own. Now, every webspider will index LeFurtographer as the only verifiable case of HIV from oral sex when in fact, its not verifiable or supported in anyway.

He'll likely switch IDs yet again, flame up something/someone else with circular and unsupported logic.

This is the kind of user that makes people drop off of forums like this. No active moderation, crazy posters and poof.... discussion become ego trips for the Borderline Personality Defect-inflicted Narcissist.

I don't disagree with your debate over show me the proof. LeFurtographer does seem to be a resurfacing of a contrarian. ;) and I too hate arguments that are based purely on emotion and lacking scientific validation of any kind.

However misguided his motivations might be.... never lose the message for the messenger. There is a theoretical risk, and as I said before 1 out of a gazillion is not statistically significant - unless you are the 1. Then it is very significant indeed.

In your arguing with LeFurtographer you seem to be encouraging people to go out and have unprotected oral sex and completely ignore the theoretical risks? Not certain this is what you mean to say?

[darkeyes]

NEPHX I'm not LeFurtographer.

You can claim all you want that you somehow know a lot about safe sex and HIV/STDs but then when you go giving dangerous and false advice like this: it just shows how you are talking out your ass, in complete denial and as bad as the AIDS denialists and bug chasers are, and how you do not care about other people's lives or health including your own.

"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt."-Abraham Lincoln

http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/resources/qa/transmission.htm Just tryin 2 help...:)

[lovescum2]

Quote from Nephx
I would say that rarely is someone just turned on by a cock without being attracted to the guy its attached to.

Nephx I hate to tell you this but I'm with him so I must be a rare one to, I only find women sexually attractive, but I have this thing about only sucking dick too. So maybe there are more like us out there than people have counted. :)

[NEPHX]

NEPHX I'm not LeFurtographer.

You can claim all you want that you somehow know a lot about safe sex and HIV/STDs but then when you go giving dangerous and false advice like this: it just shows how you are talking out your ass, in complete denial and as bad as the AIDS denialists and bug chasers are, and how you do not care about other people's lives or health including your own.

"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt."-Abraham Lincoln

roughandgruffplay/LeFurtographer/IsItAllOverMyFace.... whatever.

For the record, the the only "safe sex" (your words above), other than abstaining from sex all together, is masturbation. It's called it safer sex for a reason.

I'm in denial? Really! (when all else fails, use a cliche!). :rolleyes:

And, you keep repeating yourself. You say (again) that I'm giving dangerous and false advise, that I don't care about my own health.... you don't know me, about my health or what I do and do not do about/for others. I've never spoken about any of those personal topics.

Now you're getting nasty and calling names? If you insist on calling me or anyone else names, I'll give you a clue as a newbie (although probably you're not), you could be banned (see my end comment). I suggest you argue nice.

My statement that you quote is out of context. In context, the rest of the post discusses probabilities of that happening and NOT that it could not happen. The quote was in ref to the original discussion that if someone happened to have unprotected oral sex he would die. It was a discussion on the probability of that happening being so remote and then coupled with safer-sex practices, even less likely but it still could happen. (Safer sex does not necessarily mean a condom. It could mean many things such as a monogamous committed relationship.) Regardless of how YOU frame it or demand it, I've stated in my follow-on post that I am not advocating unsafe sex and that's just immature for you to continue to insist that I am. I've even post that I agree with YOU on safer-sex practices, etc.

From my second post in this thread (Jul 2, 2010 at 4:25 PM):


"Of course the best advice is to treat everyone as if they are HIV+ even if they say there were tested negative this morning (3-6 month window). Use safer sex practices. Until you are in a committed relationship where you and your partner have some buy in to each other but even they you just never know."

Isn't it also interesting, you sound JUST LIKE the user IsItAllOverMyFace who was banned in January. I think its time to compare some writing styles/techniques and alert Drew that you're back. I'll take care of that for you. Same play book, different topic. It is so hard to hide!

[DuckiesDarling]

Nephx, really if it's a multi then Drew will handle, he has the tools to see. Now as the debated point. Even the CDC website states that it is possible to get HIV from Oral Sex. Several factors play into the possibility but it is a possibility and you telling someone that did become HIV positive that they have no clue what they are talking when they clearly outlined that oral sex was the only thing they did that led to any contact with the other person's body fluids.

There is a lot of information and disinformation about HIV and AIDS on the net and I am more inclined to trust a site like CDC that deals with more diseases than we will ever encounter in our lives than just some chance word somewhere else.

And let's face it the only way to not get HIV from sex or sex practices is pure abstinence. That is an unarguable fact. So please calm down the rhetoric and accept that there are many things that happen in this life from someone getting HIV from oral sex to a virgin pregnancy that are explainable by medical places like the Centers for Disease Control.

[darkeyes]

Quote from Nephx
I would say that rarely is someone just turned on by a cock without being attracted to the guy its attached to.

Nephx I hate to tell you this but I'm with him so I must be a rare one to, I only find women sexually attractive, but I have this thing about only sucking dick too. So maybe there are more like us out there than people have counted. :)

Well.. 'e did say rarely.. innit luffly not 2 b common as muck, lovescum hun? That makes 2 of us.. tee hee.. cept for bein turned on by willie... will pass on that bit...:tong:

[just4mefc]

...

And let's face it the only way to not get HIV from sex or sex practices is pure abstinence. That is an unarguable fact. ....

DD, You could still get HIV.... can you say I.V. drug use. See we can argue any fact :tong:

[Argent 11]

+1 ... I am right there with you!


I just have to say your description sounds exactly like me. I wouldn't have changed a word. I love my wife, and love sex with her. But there are times when I can't think of anything but sucking a hard cock and enjoying the rewards.

Good luck.

[csreef]

Even though I am a Top, I will not allow my partner to give me a BJ or any thing else unless I'm wearing a condom. Thats it. I don't want to get AIDS or any othe type of STD...Use some common sense for God's sake...

As far as being out...I'm only out to a few very close friends / lovers...that is a decision that you will have to make for yourself

[darkeyes]

DD, You could still get HIV.... can you say I.V. drug use. See we can argue any fact :tong:Indeed we can Just me luffly.. ther r a fair numba a HIV+ peeps walkin the streets..an sadly no longa walkin the streets, who became so cosa contaminated blood transfusions.. yea me knos they screen blood much more carefully nowadays.. but ther r many diff ways peeps can in theory at least, become HIV+ wich dusn involve sex in ne way shape or form.. kno this is hearsay..but me m8 sez she knos sum 1 who wos involved in an accident an wos assisted by anotha victim. This guy claims he was infected by a minglin a ther blood wile the aider wos doin 'is gud samaritan act.. an ther anecdotal evidence a peeps gettin infected durin a fite.. same thing mixin a blood.. ther wos a case of a surgeon 'ere cuppla years 'go who practiced wile he wos HIV+... yep.. ther r in theory innumerable ways wich we can becum infected wich hav nowt 2 do wiv sex... :(

[DuckiesDarling]

DD, You could still get HIV.... can you say I.V. drug use. See we can argue any fact :tong:

Did you look at the part you quoted? The only way to get it through sexual contact or sexual practices??? If you are going to say that you use ivs as a normal part of your sex routine I'm gonna run so far away from you.............

[DuckiesDarling]

For crying out the loud I said to not get HIV from sex or sex practices the only way to be sure was abstinence.

Sighs I give up continue flaming each other when the honest truth is no one knows all the diseases in this world or the ways to stop or prevent them from spreading 100%.

[just4mefc]

For crying out the loud I said to not get HIV from sex or sex practices the only way to be sure was abstinence.

Sighs I give up continue flaming each other when the honest truth is no one knows all the diseases in this world or the ways to stop or prevent them from spreading 100%.

ROFLMFAO See I told you we could fight over an agreement hehehe

[citystyleguy]

...okay, this is where i sign off; you get hiv through the transfer of blood from on individual to another. damn it, sex is only a part of the equation; and as to the tops here, if you think that sexual practice protects you, then all of you are in for one damn big nasty surprise!!!

and now it is time to say good 'nite one and all!

[mr swallow]

I just have to say your description sounds exactly like me. I wouldn't have changed a word. I love my wife, and love sex with her. But there are times when I can't think of anything but sucking a hard cock and enjoying the rewards.

Good luck.

I also am Bi my wife & I dont have any sex,she is sick ( CA ) any way I love to eat pussy and lick a womens ass before & after sex,But I also totally enjoy being a Bottom & takeing it deeeeeppp But my favorite thing to do is to deeepthroat a cock the feeling it gives me to let it enter my mouth and feel it grow harder and harder and longer until I decide to let the edging stop and for me to swallow it all Y U M M O ..... Mr swallow:flag3::tong::eek::three:

[open2both]

Briefly...
Your thoughts/desires are shared by more people than you'd EVER know. Lol.
Keep putting your thoughts "out there" and it'll happen for ya'!
:flag2: