why we are missing friends.... :(

I was on a certain bi guy site this evening and came across this forum thread. It explains why we have lost friends over time it stems back from last fall to now, and shows why our favourite troll is bad for the community and scares good new people off and sends them back to the closet. Its unedited and cut and paste from there so you can see for yourself...
We have to protect this site so people will want to stick around!
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Holy Crap!, Just peeked at bisexual.com!
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Wow.

I looked around a bit and read the first article I came across... Those people are just... angry.

I don't know how else to put it, but there is such a negative vibe there that I came running back here for comfort and support. A couple of concepts that most of those people obviously have never heard of...
All I can say is that it is exactly the attitudes of some of those people that keep me securely locked in the closet. With the light off. Hugging my sweeper.

Sheesh.

Legion XXXIV




Believe me Indy...I won't giggle,

What's happened to that site is tragic. What's happened there is what has bought me here and has given me an appreciation for all this site has to offer. There was a time that I could claim that site as my "stomping grounds" If you sort through the many topics contained within it's archives you'd find the bits and pieces contained and intertwined within collectively of well over a 1000 of my posts and threads that reflected a journey that lasted well over a extended period of four years. My journey. It was an area of discovery for all that had an inclination towards understanding this journey we are engaged upon….Not anymore….
I have a lot of respect for the person who began the site with the ideal of creating an online community...although not shy about his bisexuality you'd find him an individual very interested in Bisexual issues and on a personal basis, he would find comfort in the community that we have here….but Bisexual.com is just one site that he has claim too …and unfortunately he cannot control or chooses not to, those that come with an intent to disrupt, have more or less destroyed all the good things that once took place there. There have been many of us that have contributed in positive ways towards making it what it once was… that have now left there and gone elsewhere.…The love, compassion, understanding, and sense of community that you feel here…was once felt there…but has vanished like those of us that have finally moved on to higher ground…..It's a heartbreaker, but illustrates the point I was making the other day in the thread regarding "Religion, Politics, and Sexual Orientation……It’s not worth the serenity you’ll find here.

Peace
Chapter1



I was a member of bisexual.com for um....I think it was all of about an hour. lol. I joined and posted and intro, some guy in his early twenties deemed fit to psycho-analyse me and accused me of being obsessed - WTF? So I left the site. I returned a couple of months later, saw the flame throwing and offered the only response that I could, "kthnxbye". It's sad because it's all too obvious that the site wasn't always like that - perhaps now you'll understand why it is that with some suggestions I'm as protective over this site as I am...because once dynamics change and things go to shit...well, I don't know if there's another site like this one out there.

....though admittedly, I'll be the first to say that the reason why this site is the piece of heaven that it is, is largely due to the members....THANK YOU for making this place what it is.

Guybi



I actually didn't know that bisexual.com existed. My first encounter with a website on bisexuality was actually Bitheway's blog, which then led me here. I found this place to be very welcoming and accepts the fact that we have one thing in common despite our cultural, religious, social and physical differences. That is why I never bothered to go and find another website because this website has been more than sufficient to give me the necessary support I need. Luckily, for me, finding such a great place to be in my initial attempts to find support has been most encouraging for me to accept me for who I really am. I am sorry to see that you guys had to go through such treatment over there. I'm glad though that you managed to make your way here in the end.

Slapmyself silly 8


Seeing this thread motivated me to go look. It has not changed over there. It seems like a case of "A few bad apples", but man are those apples are really bad. Like toxicly bad.

I have never understood why anyone would do that. I know that some people get impassioned about some things. I know some people are looking for attention. I don't understand what anyone would get out of being rude and uncivilized. Most would never behave that way in person.

What is it about the internet that brings out the worst in some people? Can it really be simply the lack of consequences? Are some people only motivated to be nice by the threat of retribution? Rhetorical questions, I know.

It does highlight the way this site is run. I am grateful to the moderators for the atmosphere they have created and maintain.

DC134

I don't mean to sound critical, mrplayful.... but it's a shame that you posted the name of the other website, because now the idiots will go over THERE and make IT unliveable.

Perhaps you could mention to those folks that Drew has been VERY proactive here, deleting negative posts as soon as he sees them. It is not in his best interests to ignore the flamethrowers and "trolls" as they are referred to here.

alas... I've seen this happen time and again with chatrooms... it seems to be inevitable. However, one of the more successful techniques HERE seems to be to make another room and be very selective as to who gets in and who doesn't.

*sigh*

good point, I have edited it out, but those who see this will now know it’s a genuine site..

i went to the site were you found that thread just now, ya i like that site but i enjoy this site alot more. mostly cuz having trolls around will ofter envoce others to bring up really good topics, and its all ways a little fun to fuck with a troll a bit before you leave them alone cuz you just know that after 4 or 5 posts a troll is just flaming in their house so pissed of theyed rape a dog with a buchers knife if it would releive the anger. :tong:

other than that think of it this way more sensitive people with unfortunatly be weeded out of the croud and while this i very sad you can now post more sensitive subjects that might disturb more sensitive people but because the sensitive people are not there any more you dont have to worry about what you post.
thats a more grim cruel way of looking at it.


other than that thanx for not posting the sites url so that they can live without trolls roaming around their site.

:bigrin:

I have posted this before, but perhaps it bears repeating.

Sites such as this one that are not constantly and closely moderated provide perfect opportunities for a few sad, lonely, pathetic people to launch attacks at and vent their frustrations on others. And the anonymity of the internet allows people to engage in behaviour that they might not otherwise get away with. This is not the only place. There are others that get equally out of control.

In many places that are well monitored, forum posts do not show up until they have been reviewed by moderators, and chat rooms typically have, at all times, one or more moderators who "bounce" people who persist in mis-behaving. This may seem like censorship to some, and indeed it is somewhat arbitrary and subjective. But there has to be rules of conduct in order for people to have civil conversations and communication, and someone has to decide what those rules and limits will be. Ideally, it would be to only censor those who engage in direct personal attacks on some particular individual or some particular group. Differences of opinion about things are left alone.

So, in this sort of situation, you have to take the good with the bad.... If you are not willing to endure (or ignore) the assholes that show up in places like this, then perhaps you are better off going someplace else.

Also... the term "troll" has shown up so much in here lately that I am no longer exactly certain what it means !!

There needs to be some sort of enforceable civility rule here. Meaning, Drew (or other higher-up) needs to appoint some trustworthy members who are at least somewhat active to be moderators who make sure the trolls don't come here, and flamewars don't get started. These people have the privileges to ban people from the forums or chat (indefinitely or not), to edit posts (not to change the meaning, but to make it less "flame-y"), to delete posts, and to lock threads. Really, that's the only way I see this site improving much at all.

db :bipride:

another way to look at it ,is if someone gets so asschaped about a trolls post that they run back to the closet and hug the broom,maybe they are not really ready to come out of that closet yet.as far as having someone read and sensor every post, that goes back to sensorship and what that person alone thinks is ok for everyone else to read.just my 2cents:

I think we need to take on board that this site is a place where closeted bi curious/active people have come, over the years to externalize their fears, concerns even celebrations because they are allowed to speak freely and are encouraged. Reading the comments from people who have left shows that allowing bad behaviour here simply puts people off. This site would die if no new people came and STAYED. So its in the interest of those who are regulars here to self monitor the place rather than just hope the bad apples will go away.
The Posting rules are clear. Rule 2. is Be polite - flame the idea if you feel you must, but not the person. On that basis I will defend the positive mood of this Forum.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AdamKadmon43

...Also... the term "troll" has shown up so much in here lately that I am no longer exactly certain what it means !!

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You have a point there.

Where I chatted previously, a "troll" was defined as a person who came into a chatroom and immediately started "trolling" the user list from top to bottom, (via private messages) requesting cyber.

I never heard the term "lurker" til I came here; meaning someone who views the "who's online" list prior to going into the chatroom.

troll 1 Noun - (in Scandinavian folklore) a supernatural dwarf or giant that dwells in a cave or mountain [Old Norse: demon] - or under a bridge?
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troll 2 Verb - angling to fish by dragging a lure through the water [Old French troller to run about]
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troll 3 (internet) Noun - a person who posts deliberately inflammatory messages on an internet discussion board

Quote:

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Originally Posted by funlooker46

another way to look at it ,is if someone gets so asschaped about a trolls post that they run back to the closet and hug the broom,maybe they are not really ready to come out of that closet yet.as far as having someone read and sensor every post, that goes back to sensorship and what that person alone thinks is ok for everyone else to read.just my 2cents:

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I don't really this is true. If the forums and chat are positive places to be, then it can ENCOURAGE people to come out sooner. Coming out online might be less of a big deal to some people than coming out offline, it's still sometimes a big deal.

I wasn't proposing "censorship", per se. I mean, yeah, trolls shouldn't be able to post here (which I guess is censoring the trolls...). If a moderator deletes a heavily opinionated but not "troll-y" post, or bans a member that xy has a vendetta against, then that person shouldn't be a moderator.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mrplayfuluk

I think we need to take on board that this site is a place where closeted bi curious/active people have come, over the years to externalize their fears, concerns even celebrations because they are allowed to speak freely and are encouraged. Reading the comments from people who have left shows that allowing bad behaviour here simply puts people off. This site would die if no new people came and STAYED. So its in the interest of those who are regulars here to self monitor the place rather than just hope the bad apples will go away.
The Posting rules are clear. Rule 2. is Be polite - flame the idea if you feel you must, but not the person. On that basis I will defend the positive mood of this Forum.

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True, true. Overall, except for one or two people, I found this website to be very positive.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by funlooker46

another way to look at it ,is if someone gets so asschaped about a trolls post that they run back to the closet and hug the broom,maybe they are not really ready to come out of that closet yet.as far as having someone read and sensor every post, that goes back to sensorship and what that person alone thinks is ok for everyone else to read.just my 2cents:

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Moderation of a public forum is NOT censorship. Every place of discourse has its rules of behavior. To remove posts and/or retract posting rights of a user due to attacking other individuals is perfectly acceptable. Reasonable, respectful discourse is the proper way to have a discussion. If one can not make one's point without attacking those that disagree, then on has given up one's privilege to post.

I have never observed anyone being blocked or having posts deleted here because they had an unpopular opinion and if they had I'd be screaming about it, too (or, more appropriately, leaving for other sites). But many have for attacking others. It's that simple.

If anyone doesn't like that forums are moderated I would suggest they start their own website and let anyone post whatever they want. Doubt you'll have many users other than trolls bickering, but hey, at least you won't be censoring anyone.

I don't understand the other sites people. I have really seen no anger or anything since I have been here. I mean, there are a couple of post(er)s that seem to be here only to make others mad but all in all you have all been fine people who seem to genuinely want what contact you can get on the net. We talk rationally, and answer each others post intelligently, although some of us me included have our blonde moments. :tong: Some people tend to put their own discomfort over onto others, I wonder if this might be the case here? Someone hurt them so the whole site is now bad. Anyway, I like all of you here and I inend to stay, if you'll have me.:)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by WatersOffNauset

So that website is for men only?

I checked it out and it seems like that.

I easily found the site by doing a search for: Holy Crap!, Just peeked at bisexual.com!

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they have a 'sister' site for bi women too...

As I've suggested elsewhere, a home's worst guests sometimes, are its hosts.

"She is every moment poking her nose from behind the curtain, peering out the window or scouting outside the door. My goodness! What could she looking for so?"

The old man only got a little pull of his pipe before he grabbed hold of it, bursting with a round laughter.

"Ha! Lad don't you know by now? She's looking out for nosey neighbors!"

My apologies to all for not being more involved here in recent months, though I'm sure most understand the necessities of life preempt the desires: at least for those who are thoughtful and responsible.
I'd like to say only that, no matter the forum, idiots and abusers will exist. Whether or not the initial complaint in this thread is valid is not the question, though some of the suggestions made afterward are, in my own opinion, worthy of note. It seems to me that the complainer(s) here want life smoothed for them in consideration of their sexual preferences. My response is a simple "why"?
Do you think somehow that life is easier on the internet? My God, it's infinitely more complicated! If you want anonymity while simultaneously seeking a lifestyle that will never be completely accepted, you are in for nothing less than a rude awakening! I'm tempted to say "grow up", but civility should be the rule. The minority cannot and should not rule. To expect civil behavior within a forum which encourages and nurtures minority behavior is futile, so long as that forum is open to anyone. Should I even go there?
I'm sorry everyone can't be pleased all the time...really...but if you aren't, ignore the fools and idiots, and go down your own path with integrity! Avoid the temptation to reply with the same inconsideration, and soon the fools who "troll", "lurk" or whatever you want to call it will become bored. Until their own life takes a turn, nothing will change, save your attitude.

It's not life that kills you...it's your reaction to it!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mrplayfuluk

I think we need to take on board that this site is a place where closeted bi curious/active people have come, over the years to externalize their fears, concerns even celebrations because they are allowed to speak freely and are encouraged. Reading the comments from people who have left shows that allowing bad behaviour here simply puts people off. This site would die if no new people came and STAYED. So its in the interest of those who are regulars here to self monitor the place rather than just hope the bad apples will go away.
The Posting rules are clear. Rule 2. is Be polite - flame the idea if you feel you must, but not the person. On that basis I will defend the positive mood of this Forum.

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If I may-

[a]There is a song that sings: "One monkey don't stop no show." There is another that sings: "You're just buying yourself a book."

[b] Bad behavior is simply not possible on the Internet. I for one am thankful for the one place in the universe stupidity can be safely appreciated for what it is.

Agreed, something nasty this way comes. But that does not mean we are unable to overcome. The people (let's call them, oh I don't know....trolls?) that attack others this way are looking for a way in: they are looking for a way to get under some skin. We let them in by engaging with them. I've done it. For the attackers, posting is senseless if no one is responding. The response fuels the fire. The most powerful tool we have is to ignore those behaviours. Before I read the post, I read the name of the poster. I simply choose not to read certain posters. Sure I still have to read one or two of their posts before I get that the poster is just an antagonist. I am bummed when the thread is newly focused on retaliation towards the trolls. Not only does a thorough read of a thread necessitate filtering personal attacks but also filtering the flame like responses to the attack. I know also that the attacker is smiling smugly at home. Alone. I feel sorry for the trolls actually. I think they must have such pain in their lives. To constantly rant on about the ills of others or about how everyone else is an idiot must speak to an inner sense of inadequacy. I'm very happy I don't feel that way and I wish no one had to. That's my forty:2cents:worth on that part of the thread. As to this site being a place of safety and comfort for those of us that are looking for such things, I think it has lots to offer. I have connected with a few people I share common ground with. Reading profiles teaches me about many things. I learn that I am certainly not alone. It tells me that there are many people experiencing transformation in their bisexual lives. Some are further along the path I'm taking some not so far. Many others are taking many other paths. I am fascinated with what goes on here. The forums, the chat; I have met some pretty cool nicks here. Slowly the nicks become people as they reveal themselves. I hope I come across the same way. Some of it's trivial and base, but for some, that helps, satisfies or otherwise meets some need. All of it is important. And if we want to keep what we have, there are two things I see we need to do. One of them, I mentioned before. We need to pay little if any energy towards the trolls. Read them if you must but be wary of entering into any sort of intelligent discourse with them. That is not what interests them. The second one is much more important. We must continue to reach out, ask questions, support each other, share experience and wisdom, argue passionately for what we believe is true even if others disagree and respect the differences between us. I intend to do just that. Kind of like real life, huh?

P.S. I subscribed to that other site. I was looking for insight into what motivated the complaints about this place. Other than the trolls:rolleyes:. I thought I might find friendly banter or gentlemanly (ugh) discourse. Instead, I found a very interesting message in their "Big Welcome Forum". The first entry was a letter from the owners of the site. I won't be returning to their site. I like it here.